Vet News Ten year-old veterinary assistant sparks debate in vet circles

March 26th, 2008  

Add Comment27 Comments

I had a moment of scepitism as to the desirability or necessity of a child filling that role. But I see no reason why she couldn't do it on a properly supervised basis.

emily March 26th, 2008 08:24:00 AM

I am a certified veterinary technician, and have been for 8 years. I have worked with oncologists, neurologists, surgeons and in general practice. What bothers me about this story is the lack of distinction between veterinary technicians and veterinary assistants (whether 10 years old or 50 years old). I have worked with some amazing doctors in my 11 years in veterinary medicine, but I think this sets me and my fellow technicians back in the eyes of the general public. Although it has gotten better since I started years ago, I still think many people view us as glorified puppy petters.

Nikki March 26th, 2008 09:22:00 AM

To some extent I'll agree. That's why I offered a link to St. Petersburg Junior College's current curriculum. It's hard to say you're "glorified puppy petters" when it's clear how much coursework is involved. But does the rest of the nation see it that way? Not likely if a ten year-old can do it is what some will say. But most of the press has centered around how bright this child is, not on how easy her job is.

Dr. Patty Khuly March 26th, 2008 09:27:00 AM

I don' t think we give kids nearly enough credit. I grew up on a farm. When I was 10 I thought that *all* kids knew how to castrate and vaccinate pigs and calves. Spending Easter weekend down on the farm with my cousins made me remember how capable kids are. Why am I still cutting my six-year-old's meat at meal times when he is perfectly able to help his uncle cut the netting off the bales to feed the cows? Time to give that kid a job!

Jennifer H March 26th, 2008 09:29:00 AM

I believe that as long as Courtney is trained and well supervised, she should be allowed a chance to do what she loves. I do not believe that chronological age is a good indicator of ability.

This topic also brings up a pet peeve of mine. I do not know about other states, but in Florida there is no training or educational requirements to work with animals in a vet's office. You do not know if the person drawing your pet's blood or doing the dentals has any formal training or not. I left one vet's practice after learning that the assistant left alone to clean my dogs teeth and monitor the anesthesia had received only minimal "on the job training". At least now I know that my current vet employs at least one CVT, and she has real training in doing dental procedures.

I think I would trust Courtney more with my animals than some of the vet "assistants" I have met in the past.

Susan G. March 26th, 2008 10:08:00 AM

I'm a little surprised at your misuse of the word "tech" in this piece. She is, after all, an assistant and does not hold a degree, rather, it is a certificate of no real value, considering that most "assistants" are on the job trained. There is a huge difference, especially in NYS where I work. As an assistant, "certificate" or not, she would be allowed to restrain animals, draw up(not inject) vaccines, clean up poo, assist in monitoring surgical patients(ie. check blood pressure, pulse ox, check temps, etc.

She would not be allowed to do anything that falls under the category of practicing veterinary technology and I'm sure her coursework did not involve multiple levels of Microbiology,Clinical Calcutions, Radiology and the like, so calling her a tech only clouds the issue and makes it harder for those of us who are working for the proper respect and pay we deserve.

Since NYS is rather strict in who can perform VT, and that they must have atteneded an AVMA accredited program and passed the VTNE, LVTs do start out, at least in my area, at double the wage of assistants, but wage still does not reflect what an LVT should be paid, considering the added income we bring into the practice simply by the fact that tech appointments free up the doctors to see other patients, coupled with the fact that most assistants don't know enough about meds, disease, etc to allow them to do 99% of the discharges. There is a HUGE difference in the knowledge and skill levels between LVTs who hold an AS or BS in VT and an assistant who has a "certificate" gained by a 1 year or less program.

I know that you are aware of the difference Dr. Khuly and I'm sure the disservice done to actual technicians by some of the wording in this piece was not intentional, but this confusion and lack of respect by the general public and some DVMs may have something to do with the low wages and lack of quality licensed techs that you wrote about some time ago.

Brian Hewitt March 26th, 2008 10:19:00 AM

I'm all for precocious kids and children interested in vet medicine. I don't care if grownup vets are embarrassed by this young girl, BUT . . .

As someone who believes that veterinarians must ONLY ALLOW licensed persons to do anything medically significant with our pets -- monitoring anesthesia delivery, intubation, incisions, stitching, administration of meds, etc. -- I would never want this kid doing anything more than OBSERVING with my animals, possibly handing the vet things, cleaning, etc. (or anyone of any age unlicensed, for that matter).

As long as she is strictly limited to the duties of unlicensed assistant, fine. But too many vets blur the line, allowing unlicensed "assistants" to do things they are not qualified to do.

If I were a pet owner taking my pet to any practice where she works, you better believe I'd become pretty intrusive about monitoring what they allow her to do, fearing that the "novelty" of it would tempt them to let her do things she shouldn't be doing.

And if they did, I would raise a huge stink.

Yup, I realize quite well that there are vets who suck, and licensed techs who suck, BUT, I can't really assess that till it's too late. I can however, try to make sure unlicensed persons don't serve as technicians on my animal. And I too have been disturbed by the reports who refer to her as a "veterinarian." It's dangerous, and I think they are beginning to cross that line because of the celebrity of it.

Having said that, I applaud the girl herself, and I don't doubt that she has passed the coursework herself. Intellectually, the veterinary assistant curriculum is probably within the ability of many particularly bright young people. The difference is this girl was actually motivated and disciplined enough to finish it, which speaks well of her and her prospects as a future vet if that is what she chooses to do. I applaud her, and hope she continues in this field. But the grownups -- THE VETS -- still need to be the ones making sure she only does duties appropriate for an unlicensed assistant and not let her get involved in surgeries for the sake of camera, novelty or notariety.

BTW, the Penn Foster curriculum (online) has provisional accreditation from AVMA (or at least it did last year) for their VETERINARY TECHNICIAN program -- not just vet assistant. In addition to the online coursework, you must complete a hands on practicum (hundreds of hours -- i think 400) working directly under a vet at an approved clinic. I think good online programs are a great option -- particularly in areas where there is no in-person vet tech program. Here in suburban Maryland, just outside DC, with all the well-off pet owners and boutique vet clinics etc. -- there is NO vet tech training program within a 40-minute drive. This is having a serious negative impact on the local supply of licensed technicians -- it is a known problem that increases risk to our pets. If online programs can help fill that void (GOOD ONES) with required hands-on practicums as a part of the deal, I'm all for it.

Here's a list of all of them -- http://www.avma.org/education/cvea/vettech_distanc...

I've heard great things about the Northern VA program too -- but it has different/more stringent sponsorship requirements. This is actually the closest to where I live (about 40 mins away) and has an on-campus program, but so far only Northern VA seems to be benefitting in terms of getting the LVT graduates.

So this is why I drive to Northern VA for vet care . . . a state away. My vet hospital has a cooperative program with the No. VA vet tech program to provide assistant employment during training and hire after graduation. A former member of the vet board said that it is a great program. I guess that's the best I can get in terms of reassurance.

Stefani March 26th, 2008 10:29:00 AM

Brian -- I appreciate your comments too which raise an important point.

The pet owning public is very confused by the terms "vet assistant" and "vet tech" and in general, doesn't know the difference. I was one of those people 4 years ago. No more. I think the public needs an education about it, because they have no idea -- they see someone in scrubs coming to get their pet and make lots of unwarranted assumptions about what that person must know. I really think this is something pet owners need to become educated about.

Part of the reason the public is confused is that VETS often use these terms interchangeably, failing to distinguish between LVTs and some high school kid they hired at minimum wage for the summer. The next step is failing to distinguish in assignment of duties, and I know too well the kinds of situations that can lead to.

Then you have the press contributing to the problem by referring to this girl as a "vet" in some reports.

All in all, some clear lines need to be drawn in the minds of the pet owning public AND within the profession itself. Serious education is needed her. A vet assistant is no more a vet tech than a hospital orderly or candy striper is a nurse.

Stefani March 26th, 2008 10:36:00 AM

Brian and Stefani: It was the fact that DVM News called her a "technician" and others and "assistant" that made me use both words. I'm truly not aware of the reality, though I tried to determine this by emailing her place of work and searching for a degree on the news sites--none.

I certainly dondidn't mean to imply that the two are interchangeable. The term "technician" should be reserved for the more rigorous academic preparation the degree requires. Sorry!

Dr. Patty Khuly March 26th, 2008 10:51:00 AM

The article you link to says on page two:

". . . Oliver [her mother] said. "After that, she wants to do Vet-Tech training, which is the next level. The only snag in that is we are having trouble finding a college that will accept her at her age."

So based on that it seems it's only the assistant training she has completed. It is concerning that DVM news is confused about the difference between techs and assistants. But I'm not surprised.

Stefani March 26th, 2008 11:26:00 AM

Well, without being able to sit down and personally talk to the youngster, her folks or the vet, it's hard to know for sure if she was pushed too hard, is or isn't capable, etc.

However, this young lady has completed the required training and has found someone willing to take her under their wing. I think it's a wonderful opportunity for her to apply what she's learned so far in a real life setting, and to learn even more.

To me, her age doesn't change the way I view vet assistants - my vets office has had many rather young vet assistants/techs over the years. We all have to start somewhere - some just get started earlier than others.

I hope this is the start of a happy and successful career path for her.

Cindy March 26th, 2008 12:01:00 PM

St. Pete College (they dropped the junior a few years ago) does indeed still offer the vet tech program as a distance course. It is one of the most popular ones out there.

Some articles I read about this girl stated that she was in fact qualified to be a VETERINARIAN but was only being held back due to her age. I think it is the lack of good journalism that angered so many technicians--not presenting the facts accurately and distinguishing between vet, vet tech, and vet assistant.

robyn March 26th, 2008 12:18:00 PM

As a vet student (getting my DVM) and an unlicensed vet assistant at a clinic with two LVTs, there is a big distinction in skill and training between the different jobs. Were I to go into a new clinic with my pets, I'd want the assurance of the degrees. At least then the person holding them *should* know what they're doing. On the other hand, if a practice I already went to and trusted brought in someone new and unlicensed, I'd probably trust that that new person would be trainied and supervised appropriately. There are so many variables that it all comes down to trust. Trust that the person knows what they're doing, and that could be vouched for by their degree or my vet.

lindabcs March 26th, 2008 02:40:00 PM

I am not questioning the brightness of Courtney Oliver, but the reference to her as a technician (even in your post). She is not doing my job. The job of a veterinary assistant, which is by no means easy, is much different than that of a technician. Just as you said it bothers you that some people believe she is a veterinarian, it bothers me that the title technician is not reserved for the people with the skill level to deserve it. Maybe I'm being overly sensitive.

Nikki March 26th, 2008 03:52:00 PM

Hello?
Maybe I have a thing against precocious kids (I believe in the "Milton School" approach with kids....I little Arrested Development humor....], but if this kid were in the exam room, there is little to no chance I would appreciate what she had to say about my dog- let alone let her handle my dog. My dog can't really stand kids anyway. I think I would change practices. But then, I would absolutely feel that way about anyone that rubs me the wrong way when it comes to the care of my dog. I am very fortunate that I LOVE my Techs and my Vet. They are warm and relatable as well as on top of the latest information and care. But a precocious kid that has to prove she deserves to be there would, I imagine, be really annoying and distracting. Just imagine how many times she'd be asked "oh, are you here with your Mommy/Daddy today?" and then have to explain why she's there. It's not like she is in a lab somewhere doing research on a computer. She is likely interacting with owners and for me, and anyone else that is not amused by other people's kids, I would find it it to be of eye-rolling caliber. And sometimes, things get very heated and very emotional at a Vet's office, should a 10 year old really be around that all the time?

I wish her the best, and think it's great she's following her dream (I wanted to be a whale biologist at 10 and had the abilities, just not the means nor the parents looking to shove me out into the world. So I understand). But I would not want to deal with personally facilitating her dream. To bad she doesn't live on a farm or some place where she could have her dreams encouraged privately. Lol......

I hope everyone reads that with a bit of levity....I'm half joking. Sort of.

Creature of Habit March 26th, 2008 04:13:00 PM

For the record, I specifically did not say she was a tech. I did say "assistant" and I questioned which kind of certification she received as the media presented conflicting reports. We vets do know the difference and we value the extra training like you have no idea.

Dr. Patty Khuly March 26th, 2008 05:06:00 PM

What really annoyed me about the video is that she is portrayed wearing a white top and a stethoscope, which means one of two things - either the media dressed her like that, or she's just playing dress-up. Whatever the reason, it contributes to blurring the lines between the responsibilities of the veterinary staff.

Also, although I have no doubt that an intelligent 10 year old could understand the coursework, a 10 year old is not an adult - no matter how smart or mature, the judgement and decision portions of their brains are not fully developed. I would encourage her to keep learning about veterinary medicine, but I would not allow such a young child to burdened with responsibilities beyond her developmental capabilities.

Beth March 26th, 2008 06:42:00 PM

I personally think the entire media coverage of this has given online programs a bad name. She did not graduate from a vet TECH program, only an assistant certification program, and I have not been able to find out which school she got her degree from. I am hoping it wasn't an AVMA-accredited school, and vet assistant programs are a dime a dozen, really.

Also, you are incorrect, St. Pete's certainly does still offer the online vet tech program and it is very well respected.

http://www.spcollege.edu/hec/vt/distance_learner.h...

The AVMA is very meticulous as to who gets their accreditation, and as someone posted earlier, there are only a few online programs that do meet the qualifications.

Just try to remember that just because someone graduates from a "brick and mortar" school program does not mean they are getting a better education than someone who does it online. You can have crappy techs from either, as well as great ones.

Also, for some reason many people are under the mistaken idea that if you earn your vet tech degree online you have never had to do any practical task learning, and that is simply not true. Every one of the AVMA-accredited programs required several hundred hours of practical skills learning...you re just usually learning it at an actual vet clinic, not in a school lab setting.

Heifzilla March 26th, 2008 08:05:00 PM

Dr. Khuly,

I know you didn't intentionally mean to lessen the meaning of the word tech, but the sad part is that the general public doesn't usually know the difference. Your readership, being very pet-centric certainly does. Sorry if I came off a bit harsh.

I noticed that the link to the St Pete DLP on the AVMA site isn't working, yet the one in the post above is. Did they mrely change the link and not notify the AVMA?

Brian Hewitt March 26th, 2008 09:41:00 PM

I appreciate that very much. I have met hundreds of other technicians over the years, and those of us who work for veterinarians who appreciate us count ourselves very blessed.

Nikki March 26th, 2008 10:03:00 PM

By the way, I know it happens to you too. My grandmother stills tells people I am a veterinarian.

Nikki March 26th, 2008 10:07:00 PM

Creature, how's this for you then.... if you had a horse would you allow a 9 or 10 YO to handle your animal?

I do chores for a friend at her boarding barn where there are 18 head of horses. It involves going to get the horses, leading them, putting them into their stalls, dishing up their food (all different with all different supplements), stepping into their stalls to feed them (when they are aggitated) and tending to boo-boos as needed. My favorite assistant? The 9 YO neighbor girl.

The kid is amazing. She takes direction extremely well, retains everything and has a natural knack for handling the horses and for seeing what needs to be done. She also knows how to stay safe. (Very important around horses.) She knows what her limitations are and won't go beyond them. She knows which horses go in which pens or stalls, what they eat and how long they take to eat. She can tell all the same color horses apart from a distance. She knows when something "ain't right" with any of them.

She is better in every respect than 95% of the horse owners who board at this barn -- heck, she's better than 95% of horse owners in general. Those of us who help out are trying to figure out a way to clone her!

And, yes, she wants to be a veterinarian. We're telling her how great it would be to be a large animal vet. >ggg<

So, yeah, I totally believe that the kid Dr. K. is blogging about is capable. I wouldn't hesitate to hand my dog's leash to her. For that matter, I've known other very capable kids around dogs, horses and cattle. It's sad statement of our culture today that a capable 9 YO is such a surprise.

Deanna March 27th, 2008 12:11:00 PM

In NO WAY did I say she was not capable. Potentially annoying, yes. But I did not bring up her capabilities because I don't know her from Eve. Re-read my post. My personal point of view is that #1, I don't like precocious kids and #2, I would not want a precocious kid handling my dog. I don't think a child being is a structured Veterinarian clinic, that faces liability, that is seeing a much larger cross section of species and illnesses is in any way equal to doing chores in a barn. In fact, I think my exact words were "too bad they don't live near a farm...where they could encourage her dreams privately".

I've been riding horses since I was around 10, though I did not have the luxury of owning and caring for my own. I know that we were not allowed near the "privately boarded" horses without permission. So, to answer your question: no. If I owned a horse, I don't think I would want a 10 or 9 year old caring for it. Cleaning its stall, maybe! But, I also am not in the position to say definitively because I do not own a horse, no do a board a horse that is dependant on the care of others. Do you need certification to do chores in a barn for a few hours? I don't know.

What I do know, if that if my Vet's office, which I love, suddenly had a 10 yo vet assistant, I'd be outta there. Or, I would specifically say "keep the kid away from my dog" (my dog is not a fan of most kids) and then it would nag at me and then I would change practices. I don't have a choice in the matter of the kid being there, but i do have a choice in ME being there.

All I'm saying is that THIS IS WHAT 4-H is all about. If the parents want to encourage her to follow her dreams,they can do that in other ways than pushing their kid into the rigors of adult responsibilities. As any certified professional will atest, with certification comes LIABILITY. That kid (and her parents) could have one terrible life-lesson coming her way if something happened. I don't think the parents thought about that. I find the entire premise ridiculous.

Creature of Habit March 27th, 2008 04:49:00 PM

As the parent of a former gifted child and the step parent of a particularly gifted child, I have to say that I find this somewhat disturbing. Gifted children, although capable of completing advanced coursework and accomplishing complex tasks, are still children. Whether or not they have the advantage of an advanced education, they do not have the judgment or maturity required to deal with the many situations that occur in a clinical setting.

I'm not saying that the girl should not be allowed in a clinical setting, but people need to realize that intellectual prowess does not equal emotional maturity, which is a huge component in overall capability.

CommOddity.us March 28th, 2008 07:10:00 AM

..."they do not have the judgment or maturity required to deal with the many situations that occur in a clinical setting."

BINGO! There are many things we learn, unfortunately, by running through the hog trough a couple of times. And we need some years on us to be able to do that.

CathyA March 29th, 2008 06:38:00 PM

Creature, might I suggest that your signature says it all....

As for me, I'll let the precocious "barn rat" or "clinic rat" (is there such a thing?) have my animals so you don't have to. I love precocious kids. I'm not one who thinks that competence necessarily comes with education nor do I think it necessarily comes with years of experience. Is such lack of education/experience competence unusual? You betcha.

I hope this young lady continues to break new ground throughout her life. Even if some find it annoying. ;-)

Deanna March 30th, 2008 11:07:00 PM

I am currently enrolled in the Penn Foster Veterinary Assistant Course. I have also worked at a Animal Wellness Clinic during my course, first as an intern and then as a paid employee. While I worked there I was able to do the folllowing as a VETERINARY ASSISTANT in my state:

•   Collect and prepare blood and feces for submission to lab
•   Prepare, administer or dispense medications, drugs and vaccines (all routes) under vet's supervision
•   Collect and prepare blood and feces for submission to lab
•   Appreciate proper labeling and dating of drugs
•   Stock routinely used supplies
•   Identify external parasites
•   Venipunctures
•   Groom (baths, dips, nail trims)
•   Restrain patients
•   Small Animal Operating Room experience setting up surgery
•   Administer and Monitor Isoflourene Anesthesia
•   Organize instruments in operating theater
•   Proper positioning of animal
•   Anticipate needs for surgery
•   Inventory supplies
•   Check patients in and out
•   Answer phones when needed
•   Filing patient charts
•   Experienced with restraint of Feral Cats
•   Assist with Dental cleanings
•   Euthanasia of aborted kittens/puppies

At no point was I left in a situation where I did not have a qualified vet to go to when I had questions and when I was new I was carefully watched over. While I am not now, nor do I ever expect to be a LVT I am no less of an important team member. While I do realize that LVT's have gone to school for far longer then I have and have more exposure to situations then I do, let us not forget that passing a degree program or a certificate program means you are GOOD AT SCHOOL and you test well. I learned more from working at the wellness clinic then I ever did with the course I am enrolled in. Some people simply do not learn from formal education where you listen to lectures and do tests and book work. That is my situation...I am a very intelligent woman in my mid 30's but I have a learning disablity which makes book work difficult. SHOW ME what I need to learn and I grasp it just fine...so please, do not sell us veterinary assistants short...we are smart, and we do make a difference.

Cheryl April 12th, 2008 08:20:00 PM

Add Commment

Your Name:

CAPTCHA Verification