When training my doberman I have to use certain treats (high value - cheese, real meat), thankfully he's on good food and not overweight because he would not touch any of the treats you mentioned with a ten-foot pole. My husky on the other hand will take romaine lettuce as a treat anyday over any commerical dog treat.

I think people just like to take the easy way out and buy something with their breed on the bag because they don't know any better.

Katrina May 21st, 2009 11:18:24 AM

ooooh! great article. i just posted about this on my blog too!

check me out :)

dailypuglet.com

Puglet May 21st, 2009 11:27:00 AM

That list of treats seems like it is for dogs, not cats - e.g. not 'pets' in general.  I can't imagine why I would give my cat any of the treats listed on either the first or second list!  I'm not a bit treat person, but I stick to freeze dried meat treats if I do give my cats a treat.

Jenny May 21st, 2009 11:45:57 AM

I have trouble getting my dogs to like most of the treats you listed.  But I've recently discovered they LOVE yellow and orange bell peppers!  Are bell peppers okay for them?  I did a google search and didn't find anything that said they were bad.....

Also, I use cheese cubes too...and I buy the lowfat cheese.  They love boiled eggs as well!  I was giving them the large milk bones as well, and rawhides.  I think I'll do away with the milk bones, but keep the rawhides....for sanity reasons since it's the only thing that will keep them busy and out of my hair for 30-45 minutes. My dogs aren't overweight, but they aren't by any means as slim as they could be!  Thanks for the eye opener, Dr. Khuly!

Kara May 21st, 2009 11:46:59 AM

Plain old kibble works pretty well, especially if it's frozen.  Just giving it by hand apparently imbues it with magical tastiness.

Cheerios are another good, low calorie treat.  If you want to ramp up the yum factor, you can store them for a couple of days in an air-tight container in the fridge with a small chunk of braunschweiger.  The Cheerios will become infused with the smell of the braunschweiger without adding any extra calories.

The most important thing, I think, is to remind people that they do not need to give huge portions when giving treats.  A teeny-tiny bit is sufficient (one Cheerio, one piece of popcorn, or one kibble of dog food).

It's also possible to wean pets off prepared treats, like Pupperoni, gradually acclimating them to lower calorie options.  My dog wouldn't touch people food when I got her, but now she loves mushroom stems, green beans, melon, etc., and will happily work for them.

Shelly May 21st, 2009 11:48:33 AM

Re cats and treats, you might be surprised.  Every cat I've owned has learned to love melon, green beans, corn (popped or sweet), and even dill pickles and green olives.  (Obviously, the latter are not appropriate for frequent treats, as they are salty.)

Shelly May 21st, 2009 11:51:53 AM

Well, a cat may be willing to eat those things, but being a true carnivore, why would I? Popcorn one or two maybe, but my expereince on that is that they chew it up and spit it up. 

A plain freeze dried meat treat, or one or two bits of kibble make more sense.

Jenny May 21st, 2009 11:55:48 AM

We've been experimenting with veggies as treats since we have an "allergic little dog."  Amusingly, he will snarf down just about anything that's crunchy or sweet.  Carrots weren't unexpected, but orange slices were a surprise.  He loves those.  He happily eats the big center vein in lettuce, bits of celery, cucumber ends.  He is just crazy for yellow squash, and was so fervent about it that he convinced the other dogs to try it.  (That's nice, since I have an overwhelming bounty of yellow squash right now.  Who knew I could grow dog treats from seed?)

I am so glad to be able to distribute treats much more freely than I ued to--taking care not to give them too much at once, of course.  These are so much better for them and they LOVE them, so the only thing lost is the possibility of allergic reactions to commercial dog food...and a whole lot of calories.

Galadriel May 21st, 2009 11:56:13 AM

Aside from the calories commercial treats contain, have you looked at the ingredient lists for them?! They sound more like a chemistry experiment than something that should go into our pets' bodies.

Ingrid King May 21st, 2009 12:29:29 PM

Another good post on something dear to my heart. I've been looking on the web for a comparison chart of pet weights to human weights. So that if your lab is 10lbs overweight, in human terms they be X overweight....anyone see anything like that on the web?

My dog gets ample treats the 2 days he comes to work with me but virtually nothing else at home but kibble or training treats which I use Natural Balance Rolls. But I could easily see him getting overfed if I took him to work 5 days a week.

Kathy May 21st, 2009 12:39:00 PM

Re Cats and why?  Because mine have all *loved* things like melon and green beans.  I'm in the process of cat hunting right now, and I'll definitely be introducing the new cat(s) to all sorts of fruits and veggies.  Not so much meat, though, because I don't keep it in the house.

Re dog treats and amounts, my dog gets pretty much anything and everything I eat.  She's nice and lean, because she only gets very small portions of people food.  They don't add up to anything meaningful, in terms of calories, but I think they do add a lot to her quality of life in terms of training and bonding.  Mine, too, of course.  Obviously, it's okay not to share, but it's also not bad to share, if you do it intelligently.

Shelly May 21st, 2009 12:45:19 PM

Hi. Me again. You all have such great ideas! I want to contrubute too! A lot of my treats are human-foods because dog treats tend to be very meat-y. My brother is a Dalmatian and can't have a lot of meat protein (something about kidney stones) so my human has to be creative...

My new favorite: Gerber (like the babyfood) Veggie Puffs. They're kinda like cheerios, but puffed (and star-shaped). The Sweet Potato ones are especially yummy. My human says 75 puffs = 25 calories because they are mostly air, but it's air that tastes good! I've never gotten to eat 75 at once though :(

Previous favorite: Pirate's Booty. Another human snack, these cheesey, crunchy puffed things use air to keep calories low. The rest of the ingredients are all natural and *really* yummy. One bag lasts us FOREVER.

Old stand-by: raw carrots or steamed asparagus 

Puglet May 21st, 2009 02:15:18 PM

Jenny: You raise a great point--and not just about my obviously dog-centric post (for which I apologize). Why give any treats at all? After all, dogs and cats in the wild do not snack. If we're to be biologically appropriate, dogs shouldn't eat but every two or three days. Cats? One big meal a day. 

Dr. Patty Khuly May 21st, 2009 02:33:11 PM

Wow, that's pretty crazy that those treats are so high calorie. Treating frequently with those would be like giving our kids several chocolate bars every day.

At home I don't worry too much about over treating. I generally stick to dried meat treats for my cats and when I do feed commercial treats I usually cut each one into two or three pieces (they're way too big straight out of the package, and the cats are happier to get two small treats than one big one.) All my girls are also pretty much their ideal weight too and their food intake is very well controled - they eat in separate areas and all their food is portioned out.

At the humane society we have a much bigger problem with treats. We have signs everywhere telling people not to give treats because the animals are on a special diet and volunteers are told repeatedly not to give treats. It should be obvious to anyone that treats are not needed - we have so, so many obese animals, both ones that have come in fat or that have gotten fat while at the shelter. Yet frequently I'll find treats in cages - not just one or two, but some times a pile of 20 or 30 cat treats in each cage. It's appalling, and it's no wonder that many of these cats continue to get and stay fat despite being fed a vet recommended amount each day.

But despite the obvious (to anyone with any common sense anyway) weight issues, we still have people who insist on giving treats. One person who was caught and spoken to seemed to have this bizarre misperception that the animals were constantly starving and were underweight (never mind that some of these cats are too heavy to comfortably pick up and look like little fur covered watermelons.)

Home is not a problem but between people not thinking about the calorie content of treats and people thinking that animals are being underfed despite their continued obesity, getting treats under control when the public & clueless but well meaning volunteers have access to your animals is a real challenge.

Anlina Sheng - abnormalloveofcats.com May 21st, 2009 03:07:12 PM

I like keeping all my dogs at a good weight so I can give them treats if I'd like. The best are a friend's home-made biscuits - according to the dogs, the liver biscotti is to die for! And the peanut butter biscuits - mmmm! And rawhides about every other week. (My guys love them, but man what a mess - especially for long haired dogs!)

That said, I use 1/2 a small dog biscuit when we leave or at night or any time the dogs get crated. They don't care how much - just a taste does the job. As for the pupperoni and other soft commercial treats - those are for trainig purposes only. We call them "doggy candy", and give them out as sparingly as we would give a child "people candy". Of course, I also call their monthly heartworm pill candy too...

They will eat any sort of fruit or vegetable except lemons and limes. Excitement abounds when we make french fries - they each get a piece of frozen potato. Yuck. Those mini carrots are terrific - the dogs go wild for them. They all get green beans on their food daily.

I'm not surprised people don't know how to feed their dogs - read a bag of dog food and see what a suggested feeding is - good grief! If I fed my dogs what was suggested for their size, they would all be as big as elephants in 6 months. Maybe that is to be biologically appropriate as Dr. Khuly suggests - feed the 2 cups of kibble - but just every 3 days! LOL!

Robinsdogs May 21st, 2009 03:07:29 PM

Great post, Puglet. I left you a little comment, too.

Dr. Patty Khuly May 21st, 2009 03:18:27 PM

Dr. K., while I agree that in the wild, dogs (if you're actually referring to wild canids - foxes, coyotes, wolves)might not eat a decent (size-wise) meal every day, but depending on where they're living and what's growing/available at different times of the year, they do try to 'snack' on smaller portions of food. Berries, nuts,mice, baby birds/nestlings, other baby animals,and freshcarrion (roadkill) are eaten as the dog comes across it. They don't pass up food when they find it. Trying to catch thatlarge meal of rabbit or deer is much harder than eatingsome to all of afallen apple, which I've seen foxes do. Abandoned or lost pet dogs and feral dogs also eat every chance they get, it's just that they're getting trash, roadkill, or whatever's remotely edible.  That doesn't mean they're healthy with their low caloric intake. 

And our pet dogs, who live in our homes, watching us stuff our faces 3 (or more) times a day, cannot be expected not to want toshare a portion of the bounty on a more regular basis than once every few days. While I cannot stand seeing dogs that are so overweight they should have four more legs to hold up their bulk, I could not support treating pets as if they should be glad we bother to feed them at all.

KateH May 21st, 2009 03:25:18 PM

Dogs shouldn't have any grains or processed foods.  Milk bones and the like are not good for them in any amounts.  Dogs don't have the enzymes to digest grains and most vegetables.  Dogs with kidney problems should have high quality protein, not low protein diets.  Dogs' diets should be almost all protein from an animal source, plus some animal bone.  Treats should be meat-based, such as freeze-dried liver.

Natalie Kramer May 21st, 2009 03:28:03 PM

I'm sorry, Dr. K., that sounded worse than I meant it.  What I should have said was that I can't agree that we should treat our domesticated dogs (family members) as if they were wild canids - 'cause they're not.

And Natalie, dogs (canids) can digest small amounts of some grains (not corn).  When they are starving, they will eat grains - foxes sometimes seem to enjoy wild rice enough to wade into lakes to strip it from the stalks.  When canids eat their animal prey they eat the stomach and intestines first, which, depending on what that prey animal was eating, can contain some grains in various states of digestion.  The acid in a dog's stomach and intestines can dissolve bones, so even if they don't reap much nutrition from grains, they won't be hurt by eating them.  Yes, if it's adding too many calories, that's a problem, but as Dr. K. was pointing out, the calorie comparisons make veggies and some grains a better treat for those who are going to give treats - which is most of the dog owning public.

KateH May 21st, 2009 03:42:58 PM

KateH, according to some observations of canids, they don't actually consume the contents of the intestinal tracts of their prey. They puncture the stomachs and shake out the contents and then eat the muscles of the stomach wall (tripe?) and roll in the contents (yuck!).  Veggies and "some grains" may be better treats than Milk Bones, but why?  Pieces of chicken or meat or liver are even better and more species appropriate. I feed raw meats to my dogs (and cats) but do give a small amount of cooked meats to them as treats.  If there is no nutritional benefits to dogs' consuming grains, why give them?  Some scientists believe that grains can be harmful to them, however, even though there is no definite consensus on this issuse.  Given that grains are not part of the diet of wild dogs and our dogs' closest wild relatives, why chance it?  

Natalie Kramer May 21st, 2009 03:53:47 PM

One of the best training/treat ball treats I've found is Wellness' Pure Delights, which is the tiny cat version of their jerky treats. Each one is only 1 calorie and my mutt seems to think they are high value. :) And before you ask, the package I have in front of me says "Made in the USA." Relatively well priced for Wellness too.

Ron May 21st, 2009 04:19:56 PM

I'm not going to argue about what is eaten in the wild - I've seen canids eating fruits, veggies, and grains (I know it's not often or very much, but they do eat them) - or about whether raw is best for every dog (cat), because the point of the post was about what the majority of people do, which is feed treats, which add calories.  Treats are going to be given and since dogs can and will eat fruits, veggies, and grains, as well as meat, cheese, and peanut butter, explaining to people that lower calorie options exist, and willl be better than Pupperonis and Milk Bones, is a perfectly sensible thing to do.

Last week a woman brought in her toy rat terrier, and when it weighed out at 17.8 pounds, we jokingly (not really) said it needed four more legs to deal with its extra weight (fat).  The woman has her elderly mother living with her.  This dog is getting treats - too many treats, because it only gets 1/2 cup of 'diet' food twice a day.  Regardless whether the actual dog food could be better (yes, but that's not going to happen), or given in smaller quantities (not going to happen either), the biggest problem is the treats, which do include baked chicken breast, roast beef tips, and turkey, along with crappy Milk Bones, Beggin' Strips, etc.  If we could get the older woman to make sunflower/pumkpin bars (I gave them a recipe), or carrots, or anything that's got fewer calories, that dog might make it to its 6th birthday. 

KateH May 21st, 2009 04:24:24 PM

KateH, here is a quote from a biologist at the Kerwood Wolf Education Center in Canada:

"The wolf's diet consists mostly of muscle meat and fatty tissue from various animals. Heart, lung, liver, and other internal organs are eaten. Bones are crushed to get at the marrow, and bone fragments are eaten as well. Even hair and skin are sometimes consumed. The only part consistently ignored is the stomach and its contents. Although some vegetable matter is taken separately, particularly berries, Canis lupus doesn't seem to digest them very well."

Stomach contents of small prey, such as rodents and rabbits, are apparently eaten, but percentage-wise it seems that the these contents would constitute a rather insignificant fraction of wolves' diet (stomachs of prey are not always full either). Also, wolves are closer relatives of dogs than foxes, so comparisons with wolves seem to make more sense when considering a domestic dog's diet. 

Natalie Kramer May 21st, 2009 04:28:54 PM

KateH, why are you irritated with me? I don't give my dogs crappy treats. You are not going to argue about what's eaten in the wild? Didn't you start with telling the story of foxes eating rice in the wild? If the majority of people do the wrong thing, those who educate them are responsible for telling them what the right thing is, not what the slightly less wrong thing is. If there is no hope that someone would stop giving crappy treats to their dogs, why bother? However, for those who are willing to give it some thought, why not give the complete information? If you can convince the owner you mentioned to give treats that are less unhealthy (but still species inappropriate and not ideal for weight loss), why not go for convincing them to give no treats or a small amount of lean chicken treats? 

Natalie Kramer May 21st, 2009 04:41:41 PM

Natalie,

Some of us *have* given it some thought, and we've concluded that dogs evolved alongside people, eating our food with us, and that it is therefore species appropriate to feed them a good quality commercial diet, supplemented with people food.

KateH,

I've know someone who is feeding her dogs to death.  It's heartbreaking to watch, but there is no getting through to some people.  Hopefully, the owner of the little rat terrier guy you mentioned will have an epiphany.

Shelly May 21st, 2009 04:52:40 PM

Thanks Dr K - No offense taken at the doggy perspective! 

It just really strikes me that at least from a cat perspective, feeding those kinds of things as a snack seem more geared towards fullfilling a human need. 

My cats actually get 2 big meals, and 2 "snacks' in the day - but the snacks are their regular food, nothing special.  Just a tiny portion.  We simply reduce their large meal by a small amount and set it aside for later as a small meal.  They would go crazy with one meal a day!

Plus, well, I come from the perspective of being a moderator on a feline IBD list, and member of about 12 yahoo feline health lists overall.  If someone showed up on the IBD list and was feeding their cat veggies and fruits as a snack (with a few exceptions) that would be one of the first things people on the list would tell them to stop. The exceptions aren't snacks, but things like pumpkin, sweet potato, pea baby food designed ot help with constipation or diarrhea.  Or there are some pet foods that contain fruits or veggies that cats seem to do well on.

Jenny May 21st, 2009 04:54:20 PM

One of the best treats I've found for my dog are ice cubes. For some reason she loves them, plus they're 0 calories. Whenever she hears anyone getting ice, she bolts to the kitchen. Frozen cubes of low sodium chicken or beef broth might be another good alternative for folks with dogs who won't take plain ice. The only problem are the one or two leftover slivers of ice that I invariably find later on when I'm walking around sock-footed. Carrots and bell peppers are another favorite. I've gotten to where I just keep the snack packs of pre washed babby carrots in the fridge to dole out. I do give her traditional commerical dog treats, but I've cut way back on them.

Chip May 21st, 2009 05:10:40 PM

Shelly, what we "conclude" about our dogs' nutritional needs is up to us of course.  However, scientifically, there is no documented evidence that as dogs evolved alongside humans, their digestive systems also evolved to digest and reap nutritional benefits from diets comparable to those of humans, or, for that matter, from diets different from those of their wild relatives. Domestic dogs' digestive systems are identical to those of wolves. Dogs certainly have not developed an ability to digest processed grains and starches any better than wolves. Pumpkin bars are not appropriate for them, even if better than Milk Bones. The decision is yours, and you don't need to justify it to anyone but yourself. The point is to have access to information, based on which to make decisions. I am certainly glad I did, but sadly, a grave commercial food-induced illness of one of my pets was required for me to seek this information.

Natalie Kramer May 21st, 2009 05:16:05 PM

Chip: I recommend ice cubes, too, though most owners I mention this to look at me as if I've clearly never tasted one. I just keep trying...

Dr. Patty Khuly May 21st, 2009 05:38:10 PM

When the neighbors walk by our house with their small dog in the summer, we frequently will give the dog some ice cubes.  They have joked that for some reason their dog only wants to stop at our house, so it seems the ice cubes work!!

Jenny

Jenny May 21st, 2009 05:44:43 PM

The whole thing with treats are that it is a people problem. Most people don't count them as calories or as contributors to pet obesity.

I had one client that monitored and fed special diets but then gave all kinds of fatty treats!

Carrot slices work for some.

As for training treats, the Kong TOTs have one calorie each and I make most of my clients break any treats up into corn kernel sized pieces.

Late last year I wrote about Pet Obesity and included links to pet calorie charts and pet fitness and weight loss sites which might be helpful.

However, the real problem is getting pet owners to be conscious of what they are dispensing to their pets. For many, it makes them feel better to not deny their animals anything.

Ark Lady May 21st, 2009 06:31:50 PM

I use treats to jump start training of some new or change in behavior.  The dogs are just more attentive with treats (probably because they get so few of them).  I'll probably get in trouble for this part.  I use tartar control cat treats for the dogs and dole them out one tiny piece at a time.  Dr. K, any chance you could give a similar post on cat treats?

Dog owners who don't know about the wonder of ice cubes?  Really?  Mine even like bobbing for them in a water bowl.

PJBoosinger May 21st, 2009 06:35:33 PM

I don't do many treats for my cats, mostly just freeze dried chicken once a month or less.  This is mostly because one of them is HUGELY food driven and I'm trying really hard to keep her focused on just her main meal.  She's managed to get 3 of the 4 lock and lock tabs open on the treat container before.  We also had an elk jerkey incident that resulted in a lot of vomitting.

My sis, however, has a mellow little kitten who will eat anything and everything.  She's found that he's exceptionally happy with hard boiled egg whites.  I googled it a little for her and found that they can be really good for cats' coats.

Anne May 21st, 2009 06:37:42 PM

Well I know I won't get applauded for sticking to something that my dogs digestive track will digest......but my dog loves the small marshmellows and gummi bears.  I never gave her 'tons' and never had any sugar high or anything :)  She has a chicken allergy so I had to work to find other things and these are some of the ones that I had even had suggested  from a dermatologist.  Clients look at me crazy when I suggest them but they are low calorie, something new and exciting and different.  Small bits of semi boiled potato's also work well, but I wouldn't advise putting in your pocket!!!!

J.C. May 21st, 2009 07:35:57 PM

We pretty much gave up commercial treats for the cats a number of years ago when Thomas was diagnosed with diabetes.. mostly because he's a very resourceful cat (former feral) and kept managing to break into the stash and steal them.

Instead of commercial treats, I offer a few pieces of kibble or cooked organ meat (they're partial to hearts and gizzards) that I've run through the food processor. Organ meat is quite inexpensive, and (with one exception) the cats much prefer it to the processed stuff. (Another plus- it stays in the fridge, which is probably the most Thomas-proof spot in the house.)

I will confess to having recently started using supplement-infused treats (purchased at vet's) for one of the cats (which are, nutritionally speaking, probably not much of a step above Pupperoni)... but said cat needs the supplements, and he's on so many meds that, frankly, at this point, anything that entices him to willingly take something that might otherwise have to be given forcibly is OK in my book.

Ramen Connoisseur May 21st, 2009 09:29:22 PM

Other favorites at our house: lunch meat (especially turkey) and small pieces of chopped cooked shrimp.

Another impetus for giving up the commercial stuff... I'd started noticing that forgotten containers of one of their favorite brands of moist treats were invariably full of these tiny mite-like things. When the containers (even unopened) would sit for more than a few months, you'd open them to find that the treats had been partially reduced to powder.

They're probably not harmful (considering the number of bottles my cats consumed before I realized there was an issue)... but... that's just nasty.

Ramen Connoisseur May 21st, 2009 09:40:21 PM

For cats: I m big on frozen beef or chicken hearts and chicken gizzards, cut up into small pieces. I don't know the calorie counts, though--but I know they are CHEAP. freeze them already cut up and arranged separately on a tray before bagging them or else you'll end up with a mass of mono-gizzard or super-sized heart that's heard to portion out

Defrosting them in the microwave helps. A frozen gizzard chunk is a mouthful for anyone, methinks.

Liver is good, too, though giving too much may lead to excess Vitamin A--not a good thing. 

Dr. Patty Khuly May 21st, 2009 09:48:33 PM

Natalie, it's not so much that I'm irritated at you, personally, it's that, as Jenny said, giving treats fulfills a human need - of course, so does feeding 'special foods' of any kind.  Trying to insist that people only feed what is said to be "biologically appropriate" for wolves just isn't going to happen for the vast majority of people for many different reasons.  

While you are an extremely focused person about what your animals eat, you are in the minority.  You may feel that you are 100% right, but that doesn't matter to someone who is feeding her pets with her idea of love, which include meatballs (with breadcrumbs mixed in), toast with margarine and grape jelly, or graham teddy bear cookies (yep, heard those tonight).  For me to get her to try sunflower/pumpkin bars (which aren't cake-like human treats, but hard 1/4" thick dog treats with liver paste) is a big change for her and a better nutritional offering for the dog.  To tell her that she's doing it 100% wrong is stupid because all I'm going to do is alienate her.  Maybe sometime in the far future, if I work in little steps, I can change her behavior 30-50%, but more than that isn't going to happen before her 5 year old Lab mix gets old and dies.  Could he die from a nutritional issue - maybe - could he die from something unrelated to eating sunflower/pumpkin bars - almost assuredly so.

KateH May 21st, 2009 10:08:04 PM

Dr. K. said: "Liver is good, too, though giving too much may lead to excess Vitamin A--not a good thing."

While this is meant for humans, it's interesting: (From anyvitamins.com) "Dosages exceeding 15,000 IU per day must be taken under medical supervision. Toxicity can appear in some individuals at relatively low dosages and the symptoms may include nausea, dizziness, menstrual problems, skin changes and dryness, itchiness, irritability, vomiting, headaches and long term use can cause hair loss, bone and muscle pain, headache, liver damage, and an increase in blood lipid concentrations. ... Be careful if you in the unlikely event run across polar bear on a menu - 500 gram (about ½ a pound) of polar bear liver will deliver about 9,000,000 IU to your diet - a very lethal dose. Headaches, blurred vision, loss of hair, drowsiness and diarrhea, enlargement of the spleen and liver can all be indications when your intake is too high."

Yep, watch that liver!

KateH May 21st, 2009 10:14:38 PM

KateH, thank you for clarifying. I see your point. However, I do believe many people would listen if you told them that feeding bad treats is very unhealthy for their dog. I also believe that impressing upon these owners that fulfilling the "human need" is unfair to their dog, which they might not realize because they probably don't give it much thought. I have personally witnessed people "turn around" when they learn how much harm they are doing by indulging (themselves essentially) in the cozy rituals of feeding unhealthy comfort foods to their dogs. I agree that not all of them would, but I think many would heed a stern lecture on harms done to their dogs by feeding inappropriate amounts of harmful foods. If you ever watch It's Me or the Dog, there are some episodes in which Victoria Stilwell intentionally scares the living c**p out of the owners of obese dogs, including using trick photography of the family children to show how grotesque they would look if they were as overweight as their dog. She tells them that the dog's life expectancy will be "cut by half" and other similar things.  I believe it is actually possible with many of these owners that no one ever jolted them into realizing what they are doing. Many don't question pet nutrition at all. I know I didn't until one of my pets became seriously ill. And dogs do love meat treats. I think another thing to remind owners is that if their dogs are getting a lot of treats and snacks, their portion sizes at regular meals should be reduced. Some people don't realize this, for example those who use the clicker training method based on treats and watch their dogs gain weight.

And I don't believe I am 100 percent right. I hope that I am right, and I believe I am closer to the truth now than I was before, based on the information available to date, from sources I deem reliable, those unassociated with any commercial interests. I strive to continue to educate myself and allow for the possibility that if new information becomes available, I might change my views. I consult zoologists for this kind of information. I was always fascinated with biology, in particular evolution of the species.  Good luck in your work.

Natalie Kramer May 21st, 2009 11:02:14 PM

Ramen, grilled chicken livers are HUGE in my house! My dogs lose their mind when I start grilling them. One starts walking on his hind legs for me in anticipation:) (In reality he tries to peer over the edge of the counter to see how soon the stuff will be ready). Organ meats can give some of them the runs if given in large quantities though. Also, Costco has some fairly inexpensive freeze-dried liver treats, which are made in the USA with no additives or preservatives. I believe if you order online, they are shipped free.

Natalie Kramer May 21st, 2009 11:10:59 PM

One of my dogs loves veggies, the other won't touch them. One loves ice cubes, the other ignores them. And I do very few commercial treats; even those I break in half or quarters to keep the calorie count low, since my girls are obesity-prone Labs. They do get an occasional beefhide to keep them occupied and satisfy their urge to chew. I usually just cut up any leftover meat from dinner to use as treats, that way I know what's in them.

One treat I make that both dogs (and all 4 cats) love is my own homemade version of "Frosty Paws" which I make regularly during summer. (Hint: these are messy when they melt on a tile floor, so feed outside or in a dish if you have "nibblers" rather than "gobblers", or if your pets like to play "food hockey" with their treats). When I give these to the cats, I just cut the cubes into small pieces.       Recipe follows:

              ___________________________________________________________________________________      

                  FROZEN YOGURT TREATS 

• 32-oz. carton natural low-fat plain or vanilla yogurt
• 2 Tbsp. honey
• 2-3 Tbsp. peanut butter
• 1 large mashed banana or other mashed soft fruit (can also substitute 1/3 -1/2 cup canned pumpkin,  or cooked, mashed carrots or squash, or use 1/3 -1/2 cup baby-food veggies or fruit as desired)

Blend ingredients well with mixer and spoon into ice-cube trays lightly sprayed with cooking spray. Freeze for several hours until firm. Store in ziplock freezer bags. Makes about 3 trays of regular-sized cubes or 4-5 trays of mini-sized cubes.

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Shellie May 21st, 2009 11:48:37 PM

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Salma01 May 22nd, 2009 01:20:56 AM

For what its worth, only give treats as a reward for something the dog has done. If you want to offer a treat, ask for a sit, stay, drop, come, shake hands, wait, or some other trick and then give the treat.

Find what your dog likes - raspberries are a favourite for my dog, and popcorn, and dried liver treats from the shop. The tastier the treat, the harder your dog will work to get it, and the reward only needs to be a tiny amount, to keep them coming back for more. A smidgeon.

You can also try clicker training, or play time, as a reward when training, rather than food. In fact, once your dog knows a trick, they should not need food every time as a reward for performing it. A Good Boy, pat, play time, is enough most of the time. If treats are unexpected, the dog might even work harder to get one.

Robin May 22nd, 2009 02:32:08 AM

My grandmother has an overwieght little Shih Tzu mix.  When I have stayed with them I could never figure out how the dog got so overweight.  Gets good exercise (Hit with the neighbor's dog-less kids), moderate food, little to no treats during the day... Then I found out that Grandma wakes up up every morning at about 2 a.m. and her and the dog have two pieces of buttered toast before going back to bed.  The Vet and I have managed to get her down to one piece of unbuttered toast each morning.  I am still working on getting her to switch it to something a little better for th dog, but at least we have made progress.

Dani May 22nd, 2009 11:20:27 AM

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Evets May 22nd, 2009 01:06:09 PM

I differentiate between snacks and treats.  Snacks are healthy, mostly low-calorie, but nothing special (i.e., my dog won't work for them).  A slice of apple, a sliver of tomato, licking the yogurt bowl after I'm done.  Usually happens when I'm snacking myself and sharing with Pup. 

Treats are richer, sometimes unhealthy and she will work for them.  I carry them on walks so I can recall her or distract her from other dogs.  We're now using dried duck breast and when I came back from my vacation, dried fish.  I cut the strips into pea-sized pieces.  As others have mentioned, they don't have to be big, but they do have to be good.  Sometimes I'll run Pup through her repetoire of tricks and then give her a defrosted duck wing (available from Chinatown).  Sometimes, a defrosted duck quarter.

  My equivalent would be Rechuitti chocolate or Double Rainbow ice cream.  Now you've got my attention, and what can I do for you?

Mr. Kitty is not very interested in veggies or fruit (although will sometimes try them because the dog is interested), but will get a tiny portion of Pup's treat if he's around.

On the other hand, there is an older gentleman in the neighborhood who carries Milkbones for all the dogs.  Pup (who is not the most personable of dogs) will pull me across the park when she spots him, and sit politely at his feet until she gets her sizeably unhealthy treat.  I consider Jim her honorary grandfather ;-).

lin May 22nd, 2009 01:57:26 PM

I do give them 'kitty pate' (cooked chicken livers + food processor) on occasion (this is by FAR their favorite.. they'd subsist on liver if I allowed it), but the idea of hypervitaminosis A makes me nervous, and I figure it's probably a little on the fatty side, so we keep it to a minimum. (Much to their chagrin.) Liver also makes a horrendous, gooey mess in the processor, and, well... "mom" is lazy and doesn't like to clean it up.

This is disgusting, but they also enjoy egg whites cooked with the spare blood from the meat (I usually throw in a little bit of the meat, too). They won't eat the egg whites plain. I find this particular combo totally noxious, however... I'm always careful to store it in its own special packaging. Would not want any "surprises" if I went into the freezer seeking ground chicken for myself!

Ramen Connoisseur May 22nd, 2009 02:44:51 PM

An aside.. working for treats works for cats, too!

I'm mean.. the boys rarely get anything for "free". That said, they seem to enjoy working for it, and being able to get them to sit and stay while I prepare their food has been an absolute godsend. (We can't risk intercat aggression, as one of them is FIV+, and frankly.. I don't appreciate three impatient sets of claws in my leg when a can takes longer than expected to open.)

An unexpected plus- when our chubby (and highly food-motivated) cat is being particularly lazy and unwilling to engage in play, I will bribe him to 'sit, stay, come' all over the house and offer him a tiny chunk of heart or gizzard at the end. He's so focused on the little piece of meat that he doesn't realize he's just been tricked into running and jumping all over the place. Bwahaha. Not sure how fatty hearts and gizzards are, but we give them sparingly and he's continuing to lose weight, so I figure they're probably not too bad.

Ramen Connoisseur May 22nd, 2009 03:05:08 PM

My dogs adore apple, although they hate the skin. My neighbours give them dog treats a lot, and will give out to us because the 'poor dog' wants a bit of my bacon sandwich and I should give her half. It was quite an epiphany when they first saw the dogs drooling over apple slices in preference to the milk bones they had given them.

simba May 22nd, 2009 05:12:25 PM

Ramen: For highly food-motivated cats, I'll also recommend throwing the kibble across the room. Go get it, Girl! That kind of treat training is the best for highly food-driven fatties.

Dr. Patty Khuly May 22nd, 2009 06:37:48 PM

Dr. K. I loved you suggestion of beef hearts or chichen lizards on Twitter and was going to mention it here, but you beat me to it. One of my cats adores liver, any liver, as well.

One thing I learned from a friend years ago is yeast extract tablets. All my cats like them. Each 1 g tablet contains about 2 cal and I cut them in quarters. Everyone except the IBD cat (whose major problem is weight loss) has to do something to get a treat. Usually come to me when called or go run after it.

Rufus, the IBD cat, is spoiled rotten. He is a better now (though not out of the woods) but when he was really sick, he would get couch service for everything.

silkenpaw May 22nd, 2009 09:47:21 PM

For my not-at-all-food-motivated Tonkinese cat with food allergies, I use Whole Life freeze dried chicken, cod, or salmon bits.  Almost all commercial treats I've ever seen are full of either ingredients she tested allergic to or that are poor quality.  She likes freeze-dried chicken, but won't touch plain poached chicken.  The freese-dried chicken is the one food item in the world that DOES seem to motivate her.

I break them into tiny pieces and put them in little Japanese porcelain condiment dishes.  This cat will NOT eat out of a human's hand.  If she has a weight problem, it is with being on the light side.

Miss Kitty's Mom May 22nd, 2009 10:27:43 PM

Can't believe just tossing the stuff didn't occur to me earlier! (I've chucked treats out of laziness in the past, but never for the express purpose of making Nick go for his daily "jog".) I like it... less work for yours truly.

Ramen Connoisseur May 22nd, 2009 11:51:02 PM

No owner wants to admit that their family pet is obese.  Unfortunately many owners are slowly killing their companion's by over feeding and giving unlimited treats.  Healthy treats such as popcorn, green beans and carrots are a great alternative to the milk bones.  Getting up and going for a walk is great for everyone.

www.petdirectexpress.com May 25th, 2009 06:40:42 PM

I think you need to differentiate between treats which are given for nothing (just to please the owner who's happy to see the pet be happy) and training treats.

I'm a big clicker trainer & I go through a lot of various treats. When I'm working on difficult behaviours (like counterconditioning a leash reactive dog to other dogs) I need high value rewards. They need to be small, tasty, desirable. Some things I use: 100%beef hot dog, cut up into tiny cubes (each hot dog gives about 100 pieces) microwaved on a paper plate until they dry out a bit; roast beef or roast chicken - again shredded into tiny pieces; fish paste (this stuff comes in a tube like toothpaste; European delis sell it; easy to use even with a muzzled dog as you can squeeze some out & let them have a lick); boiled organ meats - again cube & dry out on paper plate in microwave. I've had dogs that liked veggies but none would work hard for them. I do have a carb fiend who will work for bread (so much for the carnivore theory & yeah, I feed raw but still. I have a malamute with a total white carb fixation.)

The key for me to making this work & not ending up with a fat dog is to feed twice a day & adjust the meals down if I'm doing a lot of training. If we're doing a morning session on a very tough behaviour, I'll skip breakfast altogether & all the food will come in the training session. Otherwise, breakfast will be regular but the evening meal will be adjusted based on how much training treats were given throughout the day. Feeding twice a day (or more) gives you more opportunity to adjust their total intake. Sometimes the evening meal might just be a token meal of some broth & green beans (just a way to give them their supplements & keep the routine the same)

For easy behaviours throughout the day, if you feed kibble, you can use that. Just measure out the day's portion in a container & remove from that container the treats you'll use for training. As has been mentioned, you can bag the training kibble with a small bit of stinky sausage or fish & it will scent the kibble & make it more desirable.

hornblower May 26th, 2009 01:11:45 PM

My mom and my vet say I'm overweight, but I think I'm really just "big boned" for a keeshond!

My mom has replaced 1/2 of my evening kibble with a can of no-salt- added greenbeans.  I ate around them at first, but then mom cut them into smaller pieces and I eat them now.  They're not bad!   Occasionally she'll use the "french cut" green beans, which are just wierd (but I eat them anyhow).

Mom tried to get me to eat carrots like my brother, Alex, but I only like them dipped in a little ranch dressing so I don't get them anymore.  (I think she got tired of picking them up off the floor.)

We'll try those Gerber baby treats!

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s3bola July 13th, 2009 07:42:30 AM

Healthy treats such as popcorn, green beans and carrots are a great alternative to the milk bones.

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