Dr Khuly, how do you feel about tattoos in lieu of chips?

Ellie May 4th, 2009 01:04:42 PM

Dr. K., thanks for this topic (again).  I have a greyhound who's chipped, but it was done a long time ago and I don't know how to get it (re)registered.  When we scanned her, the scanner brought up the number, but I don't know what company it is, so I didn't know where to go with the little info I had (and, yes, I gave up on the process).  Do the different companies have markers (all numbers start with the same digit, are x numbers long, etc.) that identify them?

KateH May 4th, 2009 01:13:05 PM

Thanks for mentioning the potential of cancer due to microchips. If only there were more data on the subject. We chipped Jerry and he ended up with osteosarcoma in the scapula. But we will never know if the chip was the cause.

tripawds.com May 4th, 2009 01:20:50 PM

I was out with my dog and a store display toppled; she backed up to avoid it and backed right out of her collar.  I was horrified to see how easily a collar could come off.

We got her (and the other dogs) chipped and I also walk them exclusively in harnesses, never with a leash attached to the collar.  They do always wear their collars with tags, and they are always either fenced or leashed...but on the slim, slim, miniscule chance that they might somehow be roaming loose AND collarless, at least they also have chips.

And I have to hope that if they did end up loose and tagless, that if someone picked them up, they'd check for a chip.

Galadriel May 4th, 2009 01:31:26 PM

There was a lot of brouhaha around my locality over allegations that the municipal shelter was not scanning for microchips, or had malfunctioning scanners.  It's a total tragedy when a pet is PTS at the shelter who has a chip.

On the cancer thing . . . couldn't they come up with a different kind of microchip that is attached but outside the body, like a small earring?

Stefani May 4th, 2009 01:43:26 PM

All of my pets are microchipped -- I have no faith in collars. Especially the safety breakaway collars I have on my cats. They are designed to come off for a reason. As for my pup, he's already snapped the closure on one collar in his short 7.5 month long life doing something dumb (this involved bushes and a frog).

My big problem with microchip registration companies is that they have very strong policies in place about changing registration when owners change. Around this time last year my beloved cat Paprika was given to me by a co-worker who was moving out of country and could not bring the cat. I have all of the microchipping paperwork, but the company will not register the cat under my name because I do not have a signed and dated piece of paper showing change of ownership. Sadly I discovered this after the co-worker left the country, and I cannot contact her to get said piece of paper. I will either have to leave her unregistered, or get her re-microchipped and take a chance that if she did get out of the house that the vet/shelter would scan the correct microchip. It breaks my heart to think that she is unprotected -- I've only had her for a year but she is loved and I would be very upset if she was lost. If you know anybody who is receiving a pet or having to unfortunately give the pet away, make sure that you have a signed and dated letter giving yourself or the new family full rights.

Shauna May 4th, 2009 01:53:43 PM

All my non-chicken pets -- four dogs, two cats, one parrot -- are chipped. And it's common for reputable, ethical breeders to chip puppies before they go to new homes, so that if they ever turn up in the shelter (by mistake or because the owner didn't contact the breeder before giving up the pet) the animal can come back to the breeder and not add to the shelter population. 

I have six chips here waiting for the puppies to get older. They're four weeks old today. I don't ever want any of these guys to fall through the holes in the safety next. I'm responsible for them for life.

Gina Spadafori May 4th, 2009 02:00:13 PM

Two of my three cats are chipped, the third being done at his dental in a couple weeks.  Only thing I don't like is that the dabase doesn't allow sufficient information for listing my cats meds.  If a shelter did happen to find them, I would want them to know that if they are sick, it is because they are off their meds, or is eating the wrong food. I realize a shelter may not be able to provide what they need, but at least to be aware would be nice.

Jenny May 4th, 2009 02:38:18 PM

Jenny: The HomeAgain service does allow this kind of information to be listed--for a $25 annual fee. 

tripawds: There is a way to determine whether the microchip may have caused Jerry's cancer--or, rather, there was. Though the fibrosarcoma cancer is the only one that's been documented to have been the result of a microchip, a histopathologist may have been able to determine whether any cellular change in the microchip site had occurred. Of course, that means Jerry's remains would've had to have been investigated at the time of his death. Sorry for bringing this up, I just want to make sure everyone understands that there are alternatives to forever wondering.

Dr. Patty Khuly May 4th, 2009 02:56:44 PM

I heard a stat that 50% of pets microchipped do not have a chip that has been registered. Of those chips that have been registed, I can only imagine how many have incomplete/wrong contact information.  

Jason Merrihew May 4th, 2009 03:04:03 PM

I got my dog chipped when she was about a year old (she's 3 1/2 now).  I went to Petsmart and they inserted two chips with two different frequencies.  They said that way I could almost be assured of a scanner picking them up.  Well, a few months ago I asked my vet to use her scanner to check the chips, and she couldn't find either of them.  I went to Petsmart and they found them right away, still in between her shoulder blades.  I'm torn about what to do - it seems excessive to have a third put in, but it doesn't do any good for her to be chipped if a scanner can't read them.  Thoughts???

http://inaradog.wordpress.com

Liz May 4th, 2009 03:09:04 PM

Liz: Find out what frequency chips PetSmart put in, Then ask your veterinarian what kind of scanner she's using. Frankly, this may be a wake-up call for your veterinarian to upgrade to a better scanner. IMO, there's no excuse for not going with a universal scanner when most microchip companies are willing to send you one for nothing--except Avid, who I'm told is still trying to get the masses to convert to their chips by refusing to service any other frequency. They DO, however, make a universal scanner. 

Dr. Patty Khuly May 4th, 2009 03:19:39 PM

I work for a large emergency animal hospital and wish EVERY pet was microchipped. We have 3 different scanners to make sure we're covering all the frequency bases including Avid and ISO. Even then a good majority of stray, injured pets are not microchipped and about 25% of the ones that are, don't have registration with current phone numbers. There are too many clearly owned, loved pets who come in as strays and who won't get a chance to have their owners contacted in emergency situations. This is sad and preventable.

Julie May 4th, 2009 03:25:05 PM

My two cats are microchipped and my foster will be chipped as soon as I get her healthy and adopt her (darn mycoplasma eye infections.)

My cats are all indoor cats, but I do take them outside for supervised play time in the yard and we do travel together, so there's always a chance someone will go missing. Tattoos aren't useful outside your local region from what I understand and I've given up on collars - I tried but as soon as I turn my back the collar gets taken off.

I'll accept the small risk of cancer that microchips present. We've had no cats affected with cancer, but several cats over the course of my childhood just disappear (and some turn up again), so the risk vs benefits comes out in favour of microchipping for me.

Last time I had Violet in to the vet, she checked for the microchip with the scanner and yup, it was still in the right spot.

I was unaware that not all vets and shelters are using a universal scanner. It seems awfully silly that there isn't more of a push to standardize microchips, as they're only useful if your microchip can be scanned at any facility and your scanner can scan any microchip. Otherwise, what's the point? Kind of like buying a cellphone, but you might be able to call your friends, but maybe not if they don't have a compatible cell phone. Universal compatibility and wide adoption of technology make it worth while investing in.

I'm curious now to see if my cats' chips can be read by animal control and the humane society. They're both AVID chips (updated my contact info today - it would be so much easier if it could be done at the vet instead of having to deal directly with AVID, but oh well.)

Anlina Sheng - abnormalloveofcats.com May 4th, 2009 04:07:45 PM

Liz - if your pet was chipped at a Banfield clinic inside a PetSmart, she has an unencrypted 125 kHz chip and a 134.2 kHz ISO (universal) chip (I work for Banfield). 

Anna May 4th, 2009 04:17:06 PM

Microchips can move around the body, so when we get an animal in we go over it pretty well. There are still a few that get missed probably. The local rescue group doesn't have a scanner so it can't checkthem over, tattoos work better in this regard.

I wish there was a national database where all numbers are registered so you can find out which company provided the chip for easy reach, I hate searching for the company.

Finally, we did find a cat who had a microchip but the company had gone out of business and another company bought only 1/2 their inventory/numbers. Sorry people but your cat wasn't on of them but she did find a good home.

Companies here will allow you to register your animal if the company has gone out of business or you're from another country. it costs are pretty reasonable

Kathy May 4th, 2009 04:26:52 PM

All of our non-feathered pets are microchipped as well. 

Unfortunately, after six years we tried scanning each of them and two of them (all of them have the same chips) were not readable.

We will continue to chip our pets, as well as all of our rescues (we chip them with our own information so that we can be sure they come back to US).  After all, every additional step taken to ensure a pet's safe return is one more chance at a ride home!

Kim May 4th, 2009 05:02:42 PM

tripawds: I had a longer post about this topic (2 examples of success w/ lost pup)---but please let me put your mind at ease.

I had 2 Scotties (brothers) both with osteosarcoma in the right scapula, long before you ever heard of chips---coincidentally I posted about it on my blog yesterday , but in relation to a different topic.

If I were to ever suspect anything, I would suspect a bad batch of vaccines. Why? Because back in the mid-80's I lost another unrelated Scottie to fibrosarcoma between the shoulder blades

Barbara A. Albright/NH May 4th, 2009 05:33:58 PM

My papillon's chip migrated.  It's now located along his ribs, about halfway down his body.  The brother of another of my dogs had his migrate to his chest. 

I've also been very frustrated at the lack of standards for microchips.  Why are there so many kinds?  And then the vet clinic I use has a chip I've never heard of (ResQ), but supposedly it's one of the few that can be read overseas. 

Nita May 4th, 2009 06:00:16 PM

For people who insist on permitting their pets to be outside unsupervised for whatever reason I suppose so. As long as this doesn't become a product that makes people think "now you can rest free and easy while your cat or dog roams and runs around the neighborhood".  Not real big on the concept of implanting electronics into either pets or people.  Nothing conspiratorial or anything it's just shouldn't be a substitute for being alert to life, awake and aware, and being responsible and on top of things.

Evet May 4th, 2009 06:04:34 PM

I have both my dogs microchipped.  My six year old schnauzer has a Home Again chip, and my newer border collie (just adopted in January) has a ResQ chip.  I am a firm believer in microchips!

About two years ago, my front door blew open while I was at work (son didn't check that the door latched behind him).  I came home to an extremely cold house, 4 traumatized cats, and no dogs.  I spent hours searching our rural area for the dogs, afraid that coyotes had gotten them, and hoping that they had been picked up by animal control.  The only bit of hope I had was their microchips.  Then I thought about their information - how long had it been since I'd updated it? I haven't moved in 25 years, but my phone number has changed (darn cell phone companies!).  I called Home Again, and sure enough, they had an old contact number. I now check yearly that the info is current, and I can do it online easily.  By the way, both dogs showed up at home, the golden while I was out searching, the schnauzer while I was crying and calling Home Again.

I agree that we need a universal database of microchip numbers.  And I think that Avid should go the way of beta video - get with the program people!  Cooperation creates more business for everyone.

Sassy May 4th, 2009 06:15:17 PM

The boys are Home Again chipped, and I was a little dismayed with what little information I was able to input into the database (unless it's changed in the months since we signed up for the program). Because the information goes on a flyer to be sent out in the event that the pet gets lost, there are space constraints that don't allow for much input. The text box would undoubtedly be sufficient for most pets, but one of our cats has so many issues that all I was able to do was give a very basic listing with the stipulation that he "requires multiple medications". There are a few other things that probably should be included for his safety, not so much on the flyer, but for the benefit of medical personnel (i.e. dangerous adverse reaction to a medication), but.. no room. I've considered contacting HA and asking if they'll put that information in his file.

On the up side? The free Animal Poison Control services! I sat on The Lemon's registration for years (I know, bad me), and was kind of disappointed by the additional fees I'd have bypassed if I'd registered him in '05 like I should have. I didn't think I'd ever use any of the services.

Lo and behold, four days post-registration, I came home (at 2 am) to find that The Lemon had singlehandedly pilfered an entire bag of medicated treats I'd forgotten to lock up. Not having to shell out $60 for the call.. or $100 for an emergency exam.. was enough to ensure my willingness to stick with the yearly registration fee.

Ramen Connoisseur May 4th, 2009 06:17:23 PM

Evet-

I suspect that most Animal Control departments would not take kindly to repeat offenders, chipped or no.. I have a relative who used to be an irresponsible owner (in terms of allowing her tagged dogs to escape the yard on numerous occasions), and I know that she did get sacked with impound fees. Lots of them. (Unfortunately, they obviously were not enough to deter her obnoxious behavior, but I do remember as a kid having to listen to her call and whine about the fees. Why she didn't just suck it up, spend fifteen minutes repairing the fence, and be done with it.. I have no idea.)

Ramen Connoisseur May 4th, 2009 06:28:57 PM

In Oct '07 I rescued some kittens from my local animal control.  Two of the kittens were adopted to the same family.  In Aug. '08 I received a call from that animal control. The two kittens, now cats needed some help.  The family that adopted them had been evicted and the cats weren't being claimed..... did I want to come get them?  It's because they were microchipped and the chip came back as my rescuing them as kittens that animal control was able to contact me.  Clearly their being microchipped saved their lives.  Otherwise not being claimed nor rescued by another adopter or rescue group they would have been killed. 

BeckyH May 4th, 2009 06:56:15 PM

I once got a stray beagle back to his feckless owner in about eight hours, because the dog had an UNREGISTERED chip.

Found the dog while at SAR training near a large park, took it to my vet to be scanned.  Chip came up, the vet staff called the chip company (I believe it was AVID).  The chip was the puppymill's SKU tracker for the dog.  AVID was able to tell us the broker who had bought the chip.  The broker told us the pet store.  The pet store had the owner's name and phone number.

I was frankly gobsmacked that this worked through so many layers of bureaucracy.  And very relieved to see the back end of a dog that NEVER SHUT UP.

I now have my own account with AVID, so that not only are my animals' chips registered to me in the usual way, I am on record as the purchaser of the chips.

All my pups leave here chipped, with me as the primary contact, new owners as secondary

H. Houlahan May 4th, 2009 07:19:22 PM

I've had some of those problems, myself.

First, I had both my new (at the time) dog, and the cat I'd had for a few years, microchipped in early 2000.  I benefitted right away because my city was offering a new 'lifetime' license for dogs and cats that were both neutered and microchipped.  I took advantage of the program (it was cancelled about six months later), and was reassured by the extra protection microchips offer.

I kept my file up-to-date.  When the registry company offered online services of this kind, I made sure to verify all the information and uploaded photos of both the dog and cat.

A few years later, that particular chip registry went out of business.  All existing customers were sent letters, and reassured that their files had been taken-over by another (large) registry company.

I assumed that was the case.  Soon thereafter, I changed my primary residence.  I went to the web site of the company that supposedly took over my file, and found that my pets' microchips were not registered.  in fact, my pets' chip numbers weren't even recognized as microchip numbers.

I went to the next few large chip registries that will accept any chip number in their files, for a fee.  None recognized my chip numbers. 

I contacted the largest registry company directly, and asked them about this problem.  I was told to first verify my pets' chip numbers.  After that, I could mail/email my pets' chip numbers and they'd manually add them to their files. 

I verified the numbers and, indeed, they were correct.  Since then, I've had a few conversations with people about this situation.  One vet. tech. pointed out that her pets' microchips are from 1999, and they're at least five digits shorter.  So it isn't just because mine are from eight or nine years ago, now.  For whatever reason, both my dog's and my cat's chip numbers don't conform to the standard.

Still, I worry about the fact that all this information is in the private sector.  When companies go out of business, as most will at some point, what happens with that information, and is it ultimately up to the responsibility and ethics of the company going out of business, to ensure proper transfer of client information?

An interesting additional wrinkle...  There have been reported cases of injection site cancers.  I have always maintained that I wouldn't begrudge someone refusing to implant a microchip, if he/she was particularly worried about this possible eventuality.  I was not overly concerned about this potential risk, and recognize the unique benefits of microchips over other forms of identification.  The thing is, my 19-year-old cat developed a curious little tumor, at almost precisely the site of his microchip insertion.  For now, my veterinarian and I are "watching" it.  (I'm happy to have it biopsied, but two vet's so far have opted a wait-n-see approach...which is fine with me, for now.)  But it does make me wonder if it is, in any way, related to his microchip.

Marjorie May 4th, 2009 08:11:46 PM

H. Houlahan - I've heard of others gonig through the same thing to find owners of a lost dog. To the puppy mill, the broker, the store and finally the owner. In  a way, I'm shocked that the parties involved were compliant enough to give out that kind of information - who the dog was sold to, etc.

Tatyana May 4th, 2009 08:20:47 PM

There is another reason to chip your pets, as proof of ownership. If your pet ever got loose or was stolen photos might not prove to a court that the pet was yours. A microchip is a permanent means of marking your pet so to speak. I reccommend them for this reason alone alot. Mine are all chipped and registered directly to me with back up contacts in case they are ever scanned. And I get them checked regularly too to keep track of possible migration.

Tail wags, Marie http://k-9solutionsdogtraininginc.blogspot.com

Marie May 4th, 2009 09:32:01 PM

P.S. our shelter used to do ear tattoos. I always worried about thieves cutting them off.

Marie May 4th, 2009 09:33:01 PM

My microchipped cat has been lost since November.  I've called many vets in the area to check if she's turned up with a client or something...i was shocked that when I asked most vets if they checked for microchips when a client brings in an apparent stray they want to keep they didn't think it was necessary.  If they don't check for microchips how can they advocate for them?!  Do they expect them to check themselves?

My cat was a shelter kitty who lookd very much like an expensive bengal (possibly was, she was a spotted brown torbie with eartufts who looked more like a wildcat than a housecat) who i suspect was probably stolen.   I trapped, flyered, kitty-buffeted, called, checked roads, etc. for 3 months.  -_-

Stormslegacy May 4th, 2009 10:32:04 PM

If someone comes in with a 'stray' I alway make sure it has been scanned for a chip - otherwise as "Stormslegacy" alluded to - it is hypocritical to recommend them.  All my pets are chipped and my cats are indoor only and if they got out it would not have been intentional; I would only HOPE that if found they would be scanned so I could be contacted.  People to often wrongly assume that just because they found a pet that the owner must have kicked them out or something but the truth is you won't know the truth until you investigate.  I have tracked down owners of strays who ultimately didn't care and ended up giving up the pet anyway; but it is my job to check. 

J.C. May 4th, 2009 11:18:23 PM

Given the research I've done on human implants, I would NOT ever, ever chip my pets.  I do not believe them to be safe and, in our case, I believe the hazards far outweigh the possible benefits.  Nor do I believe the process will be sufficiently standardized to be very reliable and safety issues addressed during my life time.  If I adopted a pet that had already been chipped, I'd probably have the chip explanted.

PJBoosinger May 5th, 2009 01:25:51 AM

I guess microchipping is just something we've never considered.  

I'm a firm believer in dog tags, and would never consider a microchip as a replacement for a personalized tag. Maybe if there is some standardization of the frequencies, it might be something worth considering in addition to a personalized tag. But even then, some research needs to be done considering PJBoosinger's reservations (PJ - can you provide links to some of your research?).

Isn't everyone close to a dreaded Wal Mart? I know our local Wal Mart has a self service personalized tag machine right up front and the cost is only $5. It takes about 5 minutes to make. And yes, you CAN find a collar that is not easily removed.

I know that we try and rescue lost dogs - I am an individual - I don't have a scanner - you NEED personalized tags as well. Luckily, huge neon posterboard signs plastered around the neighborhood has been successful for us in finding the owners of most of the lost doggies we have rescued. Many people may not go to that much trouble.

H. Houlahan - this is just my opinion, but I would not buy from a breeder or adopt from a rescuer who arbitrarily decided to microchip a pup and register THEMSELVES as the primary contact. The NEW OWNER should be registered as the primary contact. It is going to be THEIR dog - NOT YOURS. Perhaps a little better screening of potential owners is in order? Personally, I would rather see you give a coupon or something similar that covered the cost of the microchip if the new owner elected to have it done. JMHO.

Greg -

OOPS! Messed up my signature. Let me try again....

Greg - Stempy's Story May 5th, 2009 08:24:39 AM

Hey there....the link in your article referencing a connection to certain cancers isn't working for me...here is the URL you've used:

http://../../../2007/9/10/pets.vet.microchip.dogs.cats.safety.cancer.veterinary.html

Actually looks like it's incomplete....any chance you could fix it???

Thx!

G Willie May 5th, 2009 10:00:26 AM

I own a hunting breed and all my dogs are chipped.  I am not a fan of jangling tags so they have either flat ID plates on their collars or the sewn-in name and number. The flat plates also state to "scan microchip".  Their ears are dark with dense fur and so the tattoos are barely legible.  Doubt anyone would notice them, honestly. 

Collar IDs are not helpful in the following situtations:  (1) At a dog show when only a show collar is on the dog.  They tend to frown on the Garmin in the show ring.  And yes, unfortunately I have had unauthorized off-leash adventures at outdoor dog shows.  Probably the best dog show ever according to one of my males.  Typically he finds them to be dull events.  (2) in the woods when the wedge-heads manage to get a collar off...BTW, I prefer this to having a dog hung up someplace or strangled.  (3)  While visiting a foreign country with the dog and your cell number doesn't work there. 

So, in the awful instance that I would need to prove ownership, I always take a scanner that I know will read my chips when I travel.  I also make those shrink-a-dink tags to supply local contact information (hotel, friend, family etc) and bring along color photos of front, side and rear views of the dogs...and one of ME in the photo with them. 

Is this overkill?  Maybe.  But I've still got the critters with me despite their episodes of wanderlust!  

Incidentally, I've never had to rely on AVID to get them home. 

Sarah B. May 5th, 2009 01:30:23 PM

Sarah B., I hear ya'!

I like the multi-pronged approach, myself.

I live in a jurisdiction where licenses are mandatory.  The by-law reads that a tag issued by yada, yada, yada be affixed to a collar worn around the neck of the dog...blah, blah, blah.  So I legally don't have much choice there.

Plus, I have the microchip tag on the collar, so if the collar and tags are still there, it alerts the finder to scan the dog for a chip. 

Plus I have my mandatory rabies tag, also legally required on my dog's collar. 

In addition, I have a personalized tag with the dog's name, plus my, and my husband's, cellular phone number on it, since we travel with the dog so much.  (Both our phones are "world" phones.) 

I have also done the mini travel tube, so I can write anything I want on there, day to day, while travelling. 

(My dog is also tattooed.  But, like many giant-breed dogs, her tat. was illegible by the time I got her from rescue at around 8-12 months of age.  I've had even experienced kennel club folks try to decipher it, to no avail.  ...Since I'd really like to find the BYB that created her...and then possibly the owners who dumped her.)

Overkill?  Maybe.  I'm just trying to make sure that in the extremely unlikely event this dog becomes separated from me, she'll get home.

We sure do jingle on walks, as you can imagine!  (There are devices available to hold the tags together.  But, so far, I haven't found one I'd like my dog to wear.)  (You can just wind a thick rubber band around all the tags.  But eeeewwww.)  I should mention that I have all my dog's tags on a removable clip that I attach to whatever collar we're using that day.  I have a bit of a "thing" for nice collars/leash sets, so the collars she wears on walks change pretty much with every walk.  (She only wears a collar when I plan to leave my property.  The rest of the time she's 'nekkid'.)

I've never "lost" a dog, in all my years owning and training dogs.  The few dogs that have "escaped" have only done so for a matter of minutes, with me in hot pursuit. 

There are pros and cons to everything in life.  Pet identification solutions are no different.  While microchips are a more permanent form of i.d. (and, aside from getting a lost dog home, most people hope it also ensures proof positive that a stolen dog will be returned to the rightful owner), you do need a scanner (of the right type) and access to the database, in order for them to work properly.  Collars with tags have their own benefits.  If animal control picks-up a dog with tags, most will quickly return the dog to the owner, no harm no foul.  (Repeated roaming adventures are usually penalized, of course.)  If a dog with personalized tags is found, even the average citizen can use the contact information on the tag.

For instance, when I moved a couple of years ago, one of my first nights at the "new" residence I came across a dog walking alongside the road, no owner in sight.  (I live at the beach...which is essentially like living in the country.)  I had my husband stop our car so I could fetch the little thing.  I picked her up and saw her tag; "Misty" and a phone number.  I called and learned the dog had escaped without anyone realizing it.  She lived just two doors down from where she was found.  (Not much of an adventure, after all.)

I couldn't have done that if the dog only had a municipal license tag or a microchip.  At the very least, the reunion would've had to wait until the next day, rather than the 60 seconds it took, in this case.

Collars come off or are taken off.  I've been to several new-to-me veterinary offices and not one has done a routine microchip scan.  Dog license numbers are only of use to animal control departments.  Tattooing is only good as long as the tattoo remains legible, and someone knows where to go to find out to whom the tattoo is registered.

I think redundancy is the best choice.  Some form of reasonably permanent i.d., along with obeying municipal laws, and a more flexible/updatable way to contact the owner, is probably the best combination.

Marjorie May 5th, 2009 02:36:51 PM

The reason that most rescues register chips to the rescue is that no matter how hard you try to make the right choice in an adoption, there will be people who don't follow rules, such as "If you can't keep this dog - for whatever reason - you must give the dog back, not give it to a friend, or a shelter."  It also happens that even a good owner can can have family members who, now that mom, dad, grandpa, whomever, is in a hospital/nursing home, the dog/cat is a burden and the rescue doesn't get contacted.  There are ugly and stupid situations along those lines that happen every single day.  There is no way a rescue can control the people they adopt to.  They can only check as best they can, and hope the people aren't going to put the dogs in a boarding kennel, saying they're just going on vacation, and then disappear.  Yeah, it turned out they had lost their home and were moving to try to find work, and were too embarrassed to admit it, but the weeks that the kennel lost housing the dogs and trying to find the owners, and then the dogs going to a shelter and then the shelter happening to call the rescue the dogs came from (and they actually called 2 different ones, which might have taken the dogs, but didn't get back to the shelter fast enough), well, all that could have been avoided with the first contact on the chip being the rescue. 

It's all well and good to say "It's MY dog" but when people do give dogs away, or the dog gets away (accidents happen), and they either don't look long or vigorously enough (or the accident is a car wreck and the owner dies - it's happened), having the rescue be contacted is the best idea.  They can get in touch with the adopter, and get the dog home, along with offers of appropriate assistance, if necessary.

KateH May 5th, 2009 03:39:22 PM

I think a breeder or rescue that microchips care about the animals. They want to make sure they get returned if there is a problem. And theyhave the new home info to give when people call them as well. To me this means they give a crap as a breeder, not that they are just selling a product. Besides, you can pay the registration fee and get them registered to you pretty easily. I did that with the two dogs that were chipped before they came to me. (both from reputable breeders) Also the chips typically have to be registered to someone, generally it is the buyer of the chips. For many people this will be the vet who does the chipping. Again, you need to pay to register the chip in your name.

Tail wags, Marie http://k-9solutionsdogtraininginc.blogspot.com

Marie May 5th, 2009 05:18:45 PM

I'm a firm believer in dog tags, and would never consider a microchip as a replacement for a personalized tag. Maybe if there is some standardization of the frequencies, it might be something worth considering in addition to a personalized tag. But even then, some research needs to be done considering PJBoosinger's reservations (PJ - can you provide links to some of your research?).

Isn't everyone close to a dreaded Wal Mart? I know our local Wal Mart has a self service personalized tag machine right up front and the cost is only $5. It takes about 5 minutes to make. And yes, you CAN find a collar that is not easily removed.

My pets all have tags, too. Their rabies tags, their individual ID tags, their tags saying they are microchipped, and the dog of course has her city license tag.

The chip isn't substitute for tags; it's a backup, an additional bit of protection. What happens if the collar comes off?

H. Houlahan - this is just my opinion, but I would not buy from a breeder or adopt from a rescuer who arbitrarily decided to microchip a pup and register THEMSELVES as the primary contact. The NEW OWNER should be registered as the primary contact. It is going to be THEIR dog - NOT YOURS. Perhaps a little better screening of potential owners is in order? Personally, I would rather see you give a coupon or something similar that covered the cost of the microchip if the new owner elected to have it done. JMHO.

No screening process is perfect; no matter how careful and thorough you are, there's a risk of trusting someone who subsequently does not live up to that trust. Or, as KateH points, out, sometimes the accident that results in the dog landing in a shelter is a car wreck or other serious accident, and the owner is dead. That backup protection can be vital for the animal, and no, it's not all about you. Especially not for a responsible breeder who is not selling a product, but placing her beloved puppies in what she hopes, but can never 100% guarantee, will be their happy, loving, safe forever home.

Lis May 5th, 2009 07:31:46 PM

H. Houlahan - this is just my opinion, but I would not buy from a breeder or adopt from a rescuer who arbitrarily decided to microchip a pup and register THEMSELVES as the primary contact. The NEW OWNER should be registered as the primary contact. It is going to be THEIR dog - NOT YOURS. Perhaps a little better screening of potential owners is in order? Personally, I would rather see you give a coupon or something similar that covered the cost of the microchip if the new owner elected to have it done. JMHO.

Greg

My screening process would no doubt include not selling a puppy to you, Greg.

So we are in perfect agreement.

Thanks for telling me what you would prefer to see me doing with the puppies I bring into the world, though.  Your opinion is so very important.

H. Houlahan May 5th, 2009 08:04:58 PM

Greg, Sorry, my research on implants/transplants is several volumes of three ring binders that are in storage up in Missouri.  Used to do all my research at the Texas Med school libraries, since I'm not in that profession, I don't have on line access to the "good" stuff.  (Hoping to have space to move it down after I get moved but may have to build a library at my new place, as I did at the farm, since my library currently takes up the better part of a 20 X 20 loading dock storage room.  One day I will end up like these folkhttp://www.bookbarnniantic.com/s or maybe just the Collyer brothers: http://gothamist.com/2003/10/28/collyer_bros_pack_rats_to_end_all_pack_rats.php :)

PJBoosinger May 5th, 2009 10:58:48 PM

H. Houlahan: Without getting offensive, I can give a prime example of why a chip should be in at least the owners name as primary or backup.

Breeder friend chipped pup and registered to her name. Pup was placed in NYC, breeder lives in PA. Pup went with owner on vaca outside the city. Pup ran away or got loose--- breeder was contacted w message on answering machine---she was away for 2 days. Got message, tried calling owner, who was also away.

Pup was reunited, but it might not have ended that way....

And what if breeder is on extended vaca & pup needs emergency care, etc?

Barb A./NH May 5th, 2009 11:03:06 PM

Marjorie--Your point well spoke! A tag with cell phone #, has to be the best of all! My Ike's chip is written clearly on his record & never once has it been scanned!

Barb A./NH May 5th, 2009 11:07:29 PM

H. Houlihan - I said it was my personal opinion and I never said my opinion is so important. I could care less that your "screening process" would not include selling to me. But let's be very clear: YOU would be disqualified as a.....you know what? I'm not even going to go there. I stated my opinion. Simple as that. It does not make me or you right or wrong.

Again, in my opinion, I don't think you should put the microchip in your name. I think it should be in the owner's name. If you listed yourself as secondary contact, in my opinion that would be more appropriate.

I am not under any illusions that my opinion will change your practices.

Many of you make very valid points for the additional use of microchips. I do plan to do more research. I think primary and secondary contacts would be ideal - and I personally believe the primary contact should be the owner.

Greg - Stempy's Story May 6th, 2009 03:52:56 AM

Andy Kluck of the maxmicrochip.com project, 

The company that went out of business was called "PetNet".  It was a Canadian company and pretty much caused their own deminse.

(They sold the microchips under the guise of lifetime registry....and that was the case from 1991-2003.  They were the biggest and most well-known in my area, at the time.  Then, in 2003, they decided to charge an annual fee, not just moving forward, mind you, but retroactively.  - For us "retroactive" folks, they pointed to the fact there were offering improved services, though.  I was one of the few who happily paid the new fee for the enhanced, online services, including being able to add a photo and care notes, veterinary contacts, emergency contacts, etc.  I mean, it was like, maybe, $20 a year or some piddly amount like that.  I charged my own clients more than that in the time it would take to compose an angry email to the company.  ;-) -  Existing customers balked, though, as did veterinarians who'd sold the chips to past clients with the "lifetime" coverage claim.  Don't get me wrong.  I understand the uproar.  I even agree with it.  I just didn't really care, myself.  The company went out of business not too long thereafter, after losing a court case and many customers.) 

Aha!  I found an old news story about this:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2004/07/28/petnet_040728.html

PetNet files were supposed to have been transferred to another (large) registry (can't recall the name, now).  Mine wasn't, and I didn't find out 'til some months later, when I went to update my info. with that new-to-me registry.  That was when I not only discovered my chips weren't registered, but couldn't be automatically registered online with that, or any of the companies that offer that service, since the chip numbers didn't fit the standard.  (As I said, I was assured I could absolutely register them.  But I had to do that manually, via mail/email.)

This is how my dog's chip number reads on a 2004 or 2005 era standard scanner available in my region:

FDXA-H5(nine more letters and numbers)

My cat's chip is basically the same. Both are PetNet chips implanted within weeks of each other in early 2000, although at different veterinary clinics.

In 2004 or 2005, I had both the cat's and dog's chips scanned twice, for comparison, just to be sure the numbers were correct.  But I haven't had them scanned since....you know...to see if 4 or 5 years newer/different scanners also read the same.  (My dog is now 10 1/2 and my cat is 19 1/2.)

I have to assume many other former PetNet clients from 1991-2000 must be similarly affected.  Yet I never hear my same story told.  (The above news report reads there were 400,000 pets microchipped by PetNet prior to January 1, 2003.)

I hope that information is useful to you, Mr. Kluck.  I mean, moving forward, I understand there have been strides made in terms of standardization.  Eight years doesn't seem like THAT long ago, as to make my chips soooo outdated.  But there you have it.  ;-)

Marjorie May 8th, 2009 09:35:38 AM

Mr. Kluck, oops!  I meant to also point out that 10 digit code (starting with '500') after the FDXA-H prefix was still unrecognizable by these online registry companies.  No worries, though.  Home Again said it wasn't a problem to register them manually.  :-)

Marjorie May 8th, 2009 09:45:56 AM

Yes, Andy, you're right. I meant a centralized, one-stop-shop registry for all microchip numbers. 

The Catch-22 inherent in this system is obvious: The industry is geared to getting pets back home again. But many of the companies are competing aggressively with one another at the expense of their own mission. When they exclude one another's technologies from their scanners' range or when they fail to agree to a universal database (because they're all hoping for the microchip holy grail: a way to make more on the blades than from the razor itself), they show themselves to be primarily out for themselves--not for our pets. 

I hope to see this issue shake out either at the level of the individual companies (unlikely, but my preferred method) or by government intervention (if the companies can't do it for themselves). The latter situation is what's eventually going to happen unless the MC companies do it for themselves. You'd think they'd see this and choose to work together before they're truly "outed" as having a less than efficient system. 

Dr. Patty Khuly May 10th, 2009 07:29:53 PM

“Even in the perfect world where all technologies past, present and future were compatible, U.S. pets going to Europe and European pets coming to the U.S. could still risk being classified as "not identified" because of the different implant sites.” (Dr. Hannis Stoddard: http://www.amacausa.org/UserFiles/File/AvidStatementforUSDA2.pdf = Exhibit A, Implant Sites, Page iv)

UM May 14th, 2009 05:25:14 PM

Awesome website regarding microchip implants. Check out http://www.noble-leon.com/index.html

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