PS: The pic up top was stolen from The Mutt Styling Guide, a book to help guide groomers in tackling the unique styling needs of mixed breeds. it looks great. Just want to give credit where it's especially due. 

Dr. Patty Khuly July 10th, 2009 09:22:36 AM

Love the dal/dobie pic - hilarious!  Unfortunately, I'm afraid of what a dobiedal would act like since both breeds tend to have a good deal of energy.  : )

Posey July 10th, 2009 09:47:04 AM

We like to think ourselves quite civilized when we're half a step from being neanderthals.  The last carnival type sideshow of incubator babies (for which people lined up to buy tickets) didn't close until 1945; today we have "reality TV" like Ron and Kate plus 8 which is pretty much the same thing to me.  Animals don't stand a chance.  At the risk of getting flamed, as long as "stupid" breeds faster and more, this is a losing battle.

PJBoosinger July 10th, 2009 09:55:02 AM

OMG I see these breeds everyday. I work in a major pet retailer, have for the last 15 years and have seen every breed imaginable. People come in all smug that they have a "chug" or a "chorkie" or wait...my favorite right now (not) a "chiweenie".  People are adamant these are "pure breeds". Because of my  business I just smile and nod.  (and sell them stuff).  I also see the true "pure" breed dogs from back yard breeders & imports. I can see the bad teeth, or hips or whatever... but the people say, they are "AKC", like it's making the dog immortal or something. My own boxer (who I got just 4 months ago from a guy who just dropped it at my store and left), has such a severe underbite that she was emaciated and wouldn't eat, (until I figured out why).  I'm sure she's a product of a puppy mill somewhere.

Sharon July 10th, 2009 10:00:23 AM

Since my sister works at the shelter she gets a lot of people asking for specific "breeds" - such as a purebred puggle (mutt), or a puggle mix (mutt mix) or a "pocket beagle" (sigh). 

Yesterday she had a man call in looking for his lost "miniature labrador". When they told him there's no such breed he said yes there was and he had papers to prove it. They actually had the dog at the shelter (they were calling it a rat terrier mix, due to his black and white coloring and his complete non-lab looks and his beagle ears).

I hope he enjoys his puppymill papers. The dog ha already cost him over $100 in reclaim fees...

Sarah July 10th, 2009 10:12:12 AM

PS - I'm sad to hear that those Carlin Pinchers are coming from MN. I apologize on behlaf of my state.

Sarah July 10th, 2009 10:15:28 AM

I belong to 2 online groups that support owners of dogs with Addison's Disease and combined there are over 5000 members. We are now seeing owners of 2 or 3 "labradoodles" a week coming to our group for support with their "newly" diagnosed dogs. Let's see I wonder why, Standard Poodles and Labs... Standard Poodles are highly represented with Addison's and Labs certainly are up and coming.. Yet we still have way too many breeders saying it's not in my lines, and no one has proven it is genetic anyway... and those 4 dogs in the last couple of litters that died when they were a year old, well no one knows why they died, it's not my fault if the vet couldn't figure it out.. yeah right I have heard all the excuses. It's all about the money and how much of it they can make...

Elizabeth - From Nova Scotia July 10th, 2009 10:30:15 AM

In the Bahamas there is a movement to ship the "Royal Bahamian Potcakes" to the US and sell them for big money. 

These are the same dogs that I used to see in the slums of Miami and we called them "zone deer."  They are stray dogs that have bred to what dogs would be if left to their own devices.

So the people of big cities up north are spending lots of money to adopt a stray dog from the Bahamas rather than going to their own shelter for the same thing.

Can you imagine-  well meaning Americans are bringing stray dogs to the US- as if we don't have sufficient. 

But, the trendy folks like the certificate that comes with the dog.  Snob appeal.   At least a mutt is getting a good home and they probably don't have many health issues after the initial round of worming and such!

Carolyn July 10th, 2009 10:33:43 AM

There are so many breeders selling their yorkshires as "teacups" or "miniatures" when there is no such thing.  The yorkshire terrier standard is for the dog to be between three and seven pounds.  At least one of the local ladies selling 'teacups' has been consistently producing dogs that are 7-12 pounds.  In the veterinary office I ran into a fellow who was so proud of his yorkshire bitch and stud.  He claimed both were imported from Russia, where they were champions.  The bitch had a rough coat, was three pounds, and was in for a retained puppy (three died at home, she needed a c-section but he didn't want to take her in).  He had bred her to hsi stud, who is 12 pounds.  First, dog not within standard, second, bad to breed a three pound bitch, third, even worse to breed a three pound bitch to a 12 pound stud.

Poor dog. 

Our local shelter is full of various chihuahua mixes- chi-pug, chiweenie, chi-anything.  Poor dears.  I wonder how many come in that don't make it out into the adoptable area due to 'temperment issues'.  It's a sad, sad, state of affairs.

jen July 10th, 2009 10:51:13 AM

The Labradoodles in my neighborhood look like badly put-together ponies--gangly legs, roach backs and dirty-rug coats.  But their owners are adamant that they have a "purebred."

While at the Shelter where I volunteer, we're over-run with Labs and Lab mixes, due to the fact we're in the Huntin' South.  I'll show someone a perfectly beautiful black Lab (with the block head, jowls and ears) then the client will fuss about the white patch on the chest, as if I bred the dog and am trying to pull a fast one!  Right now, our Lab mixes are mostly Lab-Pit Bull or Boxer, with a fair number of Lab-Standard Beagles.  We don't get many Labradoodles (yet) because most of our hunters don't own Standard Poodles.  However, watching the wild antics of the boisterous Labradoodles in my neighborhood, I imagine we'll start seeing some when their owners tire of their "purebreds."

Meanwhile, many of my clients are disappointed when we tell them we don't know what the puppies will look like fully grown (I personally prefer to err on the big-side whem asked about adult weights).  We explain again and again that the puppies are dumped with us as strays, surrendered by owners, or just picked up off the roadside by hapless Good Samaritans.

We get purebreds--I've fostered three miniature pinschers (NOT Carlins!) this year, two with docked tails.  One of those two dogs fit the current breed standard, plus I've seen three other pet-quality min-pins come through this year.

I wish the designer dog craze would just fizzle out but that's a pipe dream.

Catherine Bruhn July 10th, 2009 11:05:24 AM

I am the proud owner of a pure bred mutt!  I got him from my local rescue and just to satisfy my own curiosity, had him DNA tested.  He's part Border Collie and part St. Bernard- "St. Bollie" as I call him; guess what, he's still a mutt!  My poor boy has been ill with BAD GI problems since I brought him home at 9 weeks old.  Trust me, there is nothing "designer" about his vet bills.  I'm pretty sure I've helped finance the new car I see my vet drive...LOL.

I also rescued a Sheltie and don't get me started about "breeders" who try to sell "mini-shelties". 

Stacey July 10th, 2009 11:30:28 AM

My MUTT came from a farm in KY - her mother was a Brittney and the father(s?) were god knows who....although a lot of the litter looked like labs.  She is 65# and actually black, brown and white with a lab looking head and tail and long legs.  I also had my dog DNA tests for grins and it definitely made me grin.  She was a Brittney Spaniel, Lab, Alaskan Malamute, Sheba Inu and a PBGV (I didn't want to spell it but; petite bassett griffon vendeen).  I wonder how much I could get if I could breed all those and come up with some catchy name...................

An Alaskan Britinu PBGV Lab

J.C. July 10th, 2009 11:52:59 AM

Carolyn, your post is confusing. I can't tell whether you're talking about dogs being imported and sold as claimed expensive purebreds, or dogs being rescued and brought to shelters in the northern US cities where the demand for smaller adoptable dogs drastically outstrips the supply.

Because I have to tell you, whatever you've heard, shelters in the northeast don't provide certificates saying that a dog is a "purebred" even if the dog comes in with apparently genuine AKC papers.

It's true there are adoptable dogs inside the US who could fill some of that demand and find the homes they need, but the over-supply of smaller adoptable dogs seems to be concentrated in the US south. And sadly, many southern so-called "shelters" won't adopt out-of-state and won't sgree to give up the dogs to be taken to northern shelters where they could be adopted--even when what the southern "shelter" is going to do with them instead, is kill them.

Lis July 10th, 2009 12:11:16 PM

JC - I have a "Bitta-dor" (Lab/Brittany mix) who came from a an "oops" litter. Posted on the bulletin board at work and by the end of the week, she came home with me. That was 14+ years ago. She is my heart dog, an awesome little girl. (40 lbs.) Shaved down for summer, she looks like a Lab puppy. With full coat, she looks like a black Brittany. The best camping dog, the best therapy dog, the best trick dog (best trick — sneezing on command!) and so easy to train she spoiled me into thinking I was a dog trainer. She's not the dog she used to be as she winds down in her old age, but she's still a good snuggle dog. :-) We call her the Energizer Bunny because she just keeps going and going....

Deanna July 10th, 2009 01:05:10 PM

That's "Britt-a-dor". Britt. With an "r". Doh!

Deanna July 10th, 2009 01:06:56 PM

Just my general opinion, not directed towards any of the posters:  the term "breed standard" makes me roll my eyes.  It's all so effin' arbitrary...some group of people decided, for status or money or pride or exclusivity, that some particular combination of traits was the "right" combination.  Breeding, in general (and with a few exceptions) is selfish and vain.  The person who proudly shows off their puggle is no worse than one who proudly shows off their purebred...I'm not impressed unless that dog was bred for health.  And I tend to think the kind of people who are vain and ignorant enough to seek out a "designer" dog deserve their ginormous vet bills...it's the only way they'll learn.  People should be ashamed of themselves.

anna July 10th, 2009 01:19:52 PM

Breed standards created bulldogs that can barely walk, can't breathe, and can't give birth without help. They created Bernese mountain dogs with six-year lifespans. They created cavaliers whose brains outgrow their heads. So I'm thinking that breed standards aren't the answer to poorly-bred bradhogs.

As for pug mixes in particular, I think they're hilarious. What could be better than a nasty-tempered guard dog that can't move fast enough or far enough to harrass anyone?

Lisa July 10th, 2009 01:54:09 PM

(Um, bradhogs? Huh? at should be "dogs.")

Lisa July 10th, 2009 01:54:56 PM

I'm amazed that in my small town, there at least 50 ads in the newspaper for these so called designer breeds....

One of my neighbors is a so-called "breeder"..she has a rat terrier that she breeds every heat and sells the pups for $50.... 

it's sad

agadoresmama July 10th, 2009 02:12:42 PM

Wow!  The responses and the information here has me astonished!  (here's where my lack of education comes in...)

I had no idea that cross-breeds came with so much baggage.  Throughout my life I've owned mutts (shepXcollie, BouvierXirish setter) and purebreds (Lab, mini-dachshund).  I was always under the impression that mutts were far healthier than their "breed standard" counterparts.  Excepting of course the inbred puppymill puppies.  In fact, that's even been my experience - my current purebreds have milked my pockets more to date than my previous mutts!

I am aware of irresponsible breeding practises (ie:small female to large male), and the issues surrounding inbreeding or line breeding, and breeding for standards only.   This is what I assume has happened with the "designer" breeds.

The prices charged for these designer dogs always surprises me too!  I paid 50.00 for my shep-collie cross years ago.  Now crossbreeds sell for hundreds!  Even the cross breed farm dogs (accidental breedings)in my area are a minimum of 100.00 (without vaccines!).

I personally would love to see a post on how to get the most healthy animal possible.  Going to the shelter is a noble idea, but you're signing up for the unknown in many ways (I took home a shelter dog once and after she'd been with me for 1.5months, she turned on me and attacked me).  My local shelter provides 0 assistance regarding temperments or personalities of it's population.

charliebear22 July 10th, 2009 02:23:12 PM

Breed standards misapplied created bulldogs that can barely walk etc. The same breeds bred to the same standards, a hundred years ago, looked quite different.

And not every breed, by any means, has gone that way. For a variety of reasons, the peer pressure in Chinese Cresteds has been against extremes of conformation.

But the fact remains that breeders breeding for some purpose beyond selling the pups, be that working, hunting, or the much-despised conformation showing, are the only breeder who are at all liklely to be doing any meaningful health screening, and letting it influence their breeding decisons. Even the best of the breeders breeding to make cute puppies for people to buy to add to their families (and there are some who are doing almost everything right, and who are sincere in their intentions), rarely have the knowledge even of what testing they could be doing, much less an understanding of why it's important and why they shouldn't be breeding their pretty and sweet-tempered bitch.

Lis July 10th, 2009 02:24:58 PM

As the owner of a "designer dog", a big ol' Labradoodle, I feel I have to defend the breed, or non-breed. While I agree there have been an excessive amount of breed mixing in the past few years, whoever decided on making a Labradoodle was thinking clearly. My decision to purchase one and not adopt from a shelter was well thought out and had nothing to do with a designer label. As a matter of fact, the first time I heard the term designer dog was immediately after I drove away from the breeder. I chose a Labradoodle for two reasons, temperament and non-shedding.  He's a puppy now so he's a little crazy, but he's a gentle giant around kids and other dogs. Unfortunately I can't say the same for the rescue dog I have in my house. When I got my dog I was given the paperwork for the Canadian Kennel Club which does recognize the breed. I didn't register him because that's not important to me. I won't argue that he's a purebred because I am well aware that he is a mix. I think the difference is he was a planned mix of two dogs and not an afternoon romp resulting in a litter of puppies.  

Catherine, I hope you don't see any Labradoodles in your shelter. Most of the breeders I have talked to request that if for any reason you can't keep your dog, you can return it to the breeder so the dog doesn't wind up in a shelter. I know my guy won't wind up in a shelter. Afterall, he's the only designer label I have!

Mary July 10th, 2009 02:43:39 PM

I had no idea that cross-breeds came with so much baggage. Throughout my life I've owned mutts (shepXcollie, BouvierXirish setter) and purebreds (Lab, mini-dachshund). I was always under the impression that mutts were far healthier than their "breed standard" counterparts. Excepting of course the inbred puppymill puppies. In fact, that's even been my experience - my current purebreds have milked my pockets more to date than my previous mutts!

It's the inbred puppymill pups that are responsible for the impression that purebreds are unhealthy.

A responsible breeder knows the health problems most common in the breed, knows what testing and screening to do to minimize the risk, and breeds based on that information as much as on the appearance and personality of the individual dogs. They don't breed any animal before it's at least two (the earliest time at which some of the critical health tests can be done reliably), they don't breed a bitch on consecutive heats and don't breed her, usually, more than three times in her lifetime. Breeding the bitch too often or too close together depletes her own resources, and increases the risk of weak, undersized, or otherwise unhealthy pups.

Puppy mills inbreed, overbreed, and breed wiithout regard to the genetic health of the parents. They'll breed a dog with obvious genetic defects as long as she's throwing normal-looking puppies in profitable numbers. And they'll breed every bitch until she is worn out and then kill her or dump her. The puppies are taken from the mom at six weeks or even younger, another health risk for them, so that they get to the pet store at maximum cuteness.

And never mind what they tell you about not letting the puppies leave mom until eight weeks or twelve weeks. They're lying. Anyone who is shipping puppies to pet stores, selling them to brokers, or selling them online to anyone whose credit card clears and then shipping them sight unseen to their new owners, has no compunctions about lying about birth date and faking some paperwork. That's why so many puppy mills have gone over to registries other than the AKC; the one thing the AKC will follow up on and enforce is accurate record-keeping.

Then there are the backyard breeders, who run the gamut from just as bad as the puppy mills, to almost as good as the responsible breeders. Where even the best of them usually fall down, is in the expensive health screening. The best of them often believe that taking their dogs to the vet regularly is all the health screening that's necessary. Many of them, not quite that good, have no idea what good prenatal care for the mom is. They're likely to let the pups go at six weeks--not quite as hard on the pups if they're going directly to a new, loving home as when they're going to pass through several sets of hands before landing in the pet store window, but still not good.

And since it's hard for the inexperienced person to distinguish the okay-to--fairly-good BYB from a resposible breeder, and since many people have been effectively propagandized to believe that titles on the parent and grandparent dogs (whether conformation, obedience, field trial, whatever) are evidence of snooty frivolity and unhealthy dogs, the unknowledgable actually avoid the breeders most likely do to all the health screening, provide the best pre-natal and post-natal care, and sell them a healthy puppy.

It's frustrating and heartbreaking.

Lis July 10th, 2009 02:44:40 PM

Mary, with labradoodles, there are really two kinds. One kind is from responsible breeders breeding from stock derived from the original Australian project aimed at producing a better guide dog, and the other kind is from the same crappy puppy mill and BYB breeders that are producing the rest of the designer mutts out there. It sounds like you may have found one of the responsible, or at least more responsible, breeders. That's good.

But you should know that an awful lot of labradoodles do shed, and these are two breeds that are both at risk for hip dysplasia, plus poodles are at risk for von Willebrand's Disease, and that means labradoodles are at risk, and if  this is the first time you're hearing this, your breeder wasn't all that responsible.

Cross-breeding does not automatically produce health, if the parents are not being screened correctly for their respective breeds. Which means that responsibly breeding designer mutts is harder, not easier, than breeding healthy purebreds.

Lis July 10th, 2009 02:51:03 PM

I was tempted to breed a bulldog with my shitzu... but my wife washed my mouth out with soap.

Bob Jones July 10th, 2009 03:04:27 PM

I'm guilty of buying a designer puppy.. and I couldn't be more happy.. Socks is a cockapoo.. A tan cocker spaniel mom, and a silver poodle dad.. He turned out to be buff with a light tan stripe down his back..I bought him from a home breeder.. and he was in a whelping box with a sibling.. I sized up the situation while picking him up..The house was cleaner than mine, the family had kids that were interacting with the puppies, and I got a good feeling.. I took Socks to the vet the next day.. and the vet gave him a clean bill of health.. dewormed him  He kept on the same food and just didn't want me taking out until all his immunizations were done..

I spend months going to the shelters on Long Island looking.. I had a bunch of requirements.. It had to be small, young, and as hypoallergenic as possible.. It seems the shelters didn't have small dogs..

barri July 10th, 2009 03:07:43 PM

charliebear22, think several generations of mill or back yard breeding; then cross breeding the worst of these and you have DESIGNER dogs.  It's almost a wonder there are any healthy dogs left.

BJ, good for your wife :)

PJBoosinger July 10th, 2009 03:14:56 PM

Oh, and a "generation" for mass breeders of dogs is less than 1 year (compared with 20 years on average for humans) so 10 years is a lot of accumulated damage for the dogs.

PJBoosinger July 10th, 2009 03:19:50 PM

Bob - LMAO; I love that one

With regards to health I would say my mutt, the brittney mix, who is 5 years old this month has been very healthy...knock on wood.  She does have a sensitivity to chicken and some seasonal allergies but it hasn't been detrimental to her health.  Again she was free from a farm in KY. 

My minature poodle on the other hand who is 2.5 years old was a dog I inherited at 1.5 years old(and yes I knew what I was getting).  She was originally bought from a pet store for 1000.00(and that was a discount)!!!!!!  It still shocks me to say that - I mean come on people, seriously....  Anyway by 4 months of age she was diagnosed with Gluacoma, retinal dysplasia and projected to be blind by a year.  Well fast forward to now and she is blind in only one eye.  The other eye has controlled glaucoma, retinal dysplasia, and juvenile cataracts.  I think that is everything - the Ophthamology Dept LOVES her because she has soooooooooo many abnormalities - oh she has the dysticia problem too; the abnormal lashes that grow from the edge of the eyelid and can rub the eye.  But - wait for it - just this past four months she has had two seizures and I suspect it is either epilepsy or hydrocephalus. 

She has the best personality and she is just a sweet little dog - which is what has probably 'saved' her to this point.  My point is that she probably came from a puppy mill and could be a poster child for problems they create.  While I think that cross breeding and mixing of breeds can improve health and vigor I just have a problem with even calling them a designer dog - it is a MUTT/MIX; albeit I am sure quite wonderful.  I have heard clients say they have paid 1000 - 2000 for some of these breeds (obviously the high end of the spectrum) and I just think that is ridiculous. 

I understand that a big problem with shelter dogs is the temperment issue (someone alluded to) but I think money would be better spent if we could beef up a behavior department in shelters to help people assess dogs and then even work with them once they get home for the first year.....then maybe we could place more shelter animals and not have the 'need' to create these other breeds. 

J.C. July 10th, 2009 03:32:45 PM

Patty, you mention adorable "parent pics" on the puppymill websites.

I hardly ever see those.  Most of the puppymill sites have individual mug-shot style photos of cowering puppies, often with backdrops and props, frequently on a towel-covered sofa. And price tags, generally with different price points for color, gender, and degree of dwarfism.  No word on Momma and Poppa.  It's harder to clean those up and get them to freeze on the sofa for three seconds.

They will often describe what the mop-puppy is going to look and act like as an adult.  Which is pure fantasy, because the puppymiller has never seen, and never will see, the adult products of their production programs.

Puppymills sell PUPPIES, nevermind the DOG. They sell to people who see-want-buy a PUPPY and have not given ten seconds thought to a decade or two with a dog.

It reminds me of those women who jones for a fairy-tale wedding, and if they have to get married to some schlub to do it, so be it.  No interest in marriage, just the wedding.

With similar long-term results.

H. Houlahan July 10th, 2009 05:56:44 PM

BTW, before the peak of the designer dog bubble, I had a client who purchased a rat terrier x lhasa apso from Petland, on the theory that it would be "healthier," which did not work out for her.

They sold it to her as a rat terrier x lhasa apso, which was an epic marketing fail.

I immediately christened the dog a Rat's Apso, and this has stuck.

Fortunately I have not seen this particular miscegenation again.  In addition to a dodgy temperament, the poor creature was one of the homeliest animals I have ever laid eyes on.

H. Houlahan July 10th, 2009 06:00:33 PM

Mary- sorry to inform you but the Canadian Kennel Club does not recognize the Labradoodle as a breed.  If your dog has CKC papers perhaps they are for the Continental Kennel Club which will mail out papers for pretty much any dog that you pay a registration fee for.  If your dogs parents were a CKC registered Lab and a CKC registered Poodle then the CKC may register the litter as crossbreeds?  ( I don't know for sure I have never been part of that purebred world...)  Regardless, if the puppy was sold to you as registered, the breeder should have completed the registration- all responsible breeders do. 

If your puppy was first generation (one parent poodle and one lab) then you have absolutely no guarantee that your dog is non-shedding.  Most people that buy Doodles are unaware of this, and IME most people that BREED doodles are also unaware.  A first generation doodle could have the coat of a lab or hair like a poodle or any variation in-between.  Sometimes the coat conformation will change when the dog is 1-2 years old.

There are to my knowledge a FEW people out there breeding Labradoodles responisbly- using well-bred labs and poodles and doing all the necessary health testing for both breeds. (OFA hip and elbows, CERF, Heart Screening, etc...)  SOme of the Australian dogs have been bred for many generations and there is now a "breed standard" and the dogs are for the most part pretty healthy (however I have noticed a strong trend of atopy or allergies amongst doodles).

This is a MAJOR sore spot for me as someone who lives in close proximity to a doodle "breeder" (read:puppymill).  This person continues to defraud people and sell hundreds of puppies every year to buyers that are simply uninformed.  Unfortunately even people that think they are informed about puppymills buy into his story and believe he is in it to provide people with quality pets.  Then a couple of months/years later these people are heartbroken when their "healthy" puppy is diagnosed with severe hip dysplasia, autoimmune disease, heart disease etc... and they face euthanasia.

My advice to people is this- get a dog from a shelter or rescue- spend a couple hundred bucks on a mutt (that will probably be vaccinated and maybe spayed or neutered already).  Yes, you are taking a risk on temperment and health (just like with a puppymill dog) but at least you haven't spent a significant portion of your income doing it.  If you really want a purebred, be willing to spend a lot, do your research, pick a good breeder, and WAIT FOR YOUR PUPPY!  Good breeders don't have puppies available all the time!  The CKC (Canadian Kennel Club) website has a lot of great information on specific breeds and how to choose a breeder.

Meghan RAHT July 10th, 2009 07:26:01 PM

H. Houlahan, You're right if it's a BIG mill but I define a mill more broadly than that and there's a whole proliferation of slick websites out there with cute pics of puppies with the family child, the dog parents with the family, etc., etc.  See here.  I'll preface this with the fact I don't know this breeder and maybe he/she/they are just incredible but I find it difficult that one place could have this many adult Shibas, breeders, and not be cutting some corners.  And just look at all the (mostly cute, some scared) puppies, which include 3 creams.  Maybe those creams are anomalies but sure not the best sign of a good breeder of Shibas since that isn't an acceptable coloring.  5 litters ready to go out the door in one month?  And if you think $1,000 is pricey, you really got to check these out!

If someone averages 5 litters/month w/ 5/litter, that's a mill in my book.

PJBoosinger July 10th, 2009 07:33:15 PM

Mary:  I don't know what papers you were given for the CKC (Canadian Kennel Club) for your Labradoodle but they are not a breed that is recognized by the Canadian Kennel Club or the American Kennel Club. You can check the CKC website. I met a lady who also told me she had CKC papers for her labradoodle and it turned out to be for the Continental Kennel Club, which will register any pup/dog bit has nothing to do with the real CKC or the AKC. She was taken for a ride by the breeder.

Elizabeth - from Nova Scotia July 10th, 2009 08:08:47 PM

Meghan: The Canadian Kennel Club does not register litters as cross breeds.

Elizabeth - from Nova Scotia July 10th, 2009 08:11:57 PM

Barri,

Congratulations...you bought a dog that is a cross of a Cocker Spaniel (sheds AND mats) and a poodle (mats).

I cannot TELL you my groomer friend's nightmares with mixes.  The Goldendoodle who has a long coat (Matted) and wants it to stay long because "it doesn't shed!" Ahhh, excuse me?  It both sheds AND mats...worst of both breeds.  Hair AND fur and the poodle tendency to mat.

I certainly hope that you are not expecting this dog to grow hair.  Or be healthy.  This dog will, most likeley MAT and SHED, so unless you want the shedding to go into a big, messy mat, you will have to put a LOT of grooming time and effort into this dog.  You also have opened a can of worms genetically.  Yeaaaa...now you have the genetic problems of the Poodle and the Cocker Spaniel.

My friend recently rescued a high energy cockapoo from a shelter.  HIGH enegy.  The owners had no patience for the dog and abandoned it.

Mary,

See my comments for Barri, but insert Lab.  Also, Labs are a doubl coated breed...think twice the shedding.  And if you wanted a dog that resembled a shaggy terrier, they have purebreds that look like that.  Just go to a dog show and oooh! that one looks like my Labradoodle.  When it is a purebred Pumoni Italiano (I think I spelled it correctly).

**

As for how to get a healthy dog, simple.  Search out breeder lists from AKC or UKC...RESEARCH the breed you are interested in...go to shows to meet some, or to responsible dog owner day...Solicit breeders who do thorough health tests, depnding on the breed.  For Poodles, this is CHIC, and many add a echocardiogram, too.  Mini and Toy poodes will need PRE.  OFA or Penn-Hip for hips, Cushing/Addison testing...Von Wilibrands.  CERF. 

Many potential owners are not prepared for the work that comes with getting a quality dog.  AND you do not get to pick the dog in many cases.  Good breeders ask for an application and then match you with the best pup for your needs.  In most cases you do not go into a sea of puppies and pick the one you like, unless that person is a BYB.  Oh, and if the breeder feels that you are not a good match for their pups, you will be directed elsewhere or simply refused. 

Many pet owners do not want to go through the effort/work or time necessary to get a good pet and so blame "breeders" when they do not get a good one.  Lack of patience will lead to lack of quality.  Haste makes wast, so to speak.

Many are also not prepared to pay for champion sired healthy pups.  They can range from $800.00 to 2,500.

Example of someone who did not care about "papers" and simply wanted a cute fuzzy dog...my neighbor.  I warned her not to go to Petfinder for a "breeder" but she did anyway.  I tried to tell her about healthy lines, but she did not care about all that...just wanted a dog.  Well, she got a labradoodle...a Miniature Poodle mixed with a Lab.  AAAANDDD at 6 months of age, this cute dog had hip dysplagia---a disease that is not common to Miniature Poodles (they typically have a bigger issue with elbows).

Sooo next? she wanted another cute dog "to keep her company."  Ah.  The old, "get my pet a pet."  Lovely.  Well, she would not listen to me again and went with another poodle cross.  Poodle x Schnauzer= Schnoodle.  She was upset that her little buddy was getting aggressive towards other dogs.  I simply told her, "well, it is a terrier mix!"

The above are examples of why mixes are BAD--B-A-D ideas.

Period.  End of Story.

Karen July 10th, 2009 08:37:37 PM

I have a purebred dog that was most likely from a backyard breeder at one point. I picked him up off of Craigslist last year, from a woman who got him from a shelter, for $75. He definitely isn't breed standard, but I think his poor breeding may have saved him from the congenital defects that many purebred mini-doxies have. He is 7 going on 8 and has no arthritis, no disk issues, and still acts like a puppy. His only problem is one that affects many small dogs - bad teeth. I've also previously had a black lab that the breeder had given me for free because she had "swimmer puppy syndrome" and the breeder was too busy cranking out puppies from her overbred bitches to give the poor thing the simple care it needed. I'm quite sure she had the bitch put down after she realized the chance that she would have more unsellable puppies. Purebred definitely does not mean better, no matter where you're thinking of getting a dog, you really need to do your homework.

Jessi Pre-Vet July 10th, 2009 08:43:43 PM

Jessi,

You were fortunate in your crapshoot to get a good dog, but I think that your deduction is false.  You were lucky, plain and simple.  You cannot throw the baby out with the bathwater.  Purebreds register more and track diseases more, so it apperars that there are more health issues than there are.  That does come into play.  Purebred dogs ***bred from responsible breeders*** are generally in good health.  If one comes across a pup that has a health issue, that line of breeding is stopped and the pup is taken back. 

I think you need to take a look at your reasoning and do not base your deductions on your limited experience. It will make you a beter vet.

Karen July 10th, 2009 09:01:41 PM

@H. Houlahan: I immediately christened the dog a Rat's Apso, and this has stuck.

*dies laughing*

Julie in OH July 10th, 2009 09:16:01 PM

We are a "I want it now" society. People don't want to do time consuming research. They want a puppy and they want it now. And forget about a breeder telling them what they can or can't do with "their" puppy or want to interview them to make sure thay are an appropriate home first. Or pick the puppy from the litter that will be the best match for the home. They are the ones paying after all.

Sadly until we wake up as a society in general there will always be people making money off the backs of dog breeding. (or horses, cats, etc) Yes more shelters should do temperment testing but some of them are doing the best they can to just save the dogs.

Oh and lets not forget those doing impulse buying. I know someone who went to the mall for a dress and came home with a puppy. (with a slew of behavior problems needless to say)

There ARE responsible breeders out there. But you won't find them overnight and when you do they may not have a litter ready when you are.

Patience is the key whether you are going through a breeder OR rescue. We are a fast food nation in many regards.

Marie http://k-9solutionsdogtraininginc.blogspot.com

Marie July 10th, 2009 09:24:03 PM

Hey, Marie!!!!

It is Karen (Chaz and Splash are my poodles...)

k-9solutions is da bomb!!!!

Go Chris and April!!!!

Karen July 10th, 2009 09:27:16 PM

Sorry Mare,

Wrong k-9 solutions.

I meant Chris and April @ Canine Solutions

http://www.k9sts.com/

Karen July 10th, 2009 09:33:43 PM

karen:

At this time there is no genetic test for Addison's. There is research going on to find a genetic marker. The advice now being given to breeders is to remove the parents and siblings of a dog with Addison's from the breeding program. Of course not all breeders follow this advice but there are GOOD Breeders out there who do..

Jessi

Just because a dog is a purebred doesn't mean it came from a responsible breeder. The good breeders I know don't make money and they are lucky to break even, they breed because they want to improve the breed and they have something to offer. You are correct however in that you need to do your homework..

Elizabeth - from Nova Scotia July 10th, 2009 10:03:49 PM

Not all purebred dogs/breed standards are detrimental to the health of the dog. 

I have two mutts and yorkshire terriers.  The mutts are half bulldog, quarter sheltie, quarter jack russell (from the shelter, accidental litter).  Between food allergies and a tendency towards flatulence they make my life interesting.  I wouldn't trade them for the world, but they are high maintenance in terms of energy and need daily probiotics in order to be decent to be around. 

The yorkshires, on the other hand...

I had a bitch that I showed, bred twice, then spayed.  She had yearly dentals but recently passed at a ripe old age.  Never had a health problem.  Her weight fluctuated (by a few ounces) around 5lbs.

I have a ten year old boy I showed (never finished, moved for school).  He has had a couple trips to the vet for a sore stomach over the years and has had a few teeth removed in the last couple years at dentals, but otherwise no health problems.  No allergies.

Four year old bitch- never had a health problem but at first dental did have one retained baby tooth removed.

Never had a birthing problem (out of three litters) and no allergies.  Good eyes, good knees.

In some breeds genetic problems are so prevalent that most lines that meet the standard (as interperted by judges) have lines with genetic problems in the background.  For instance, standard poodles.  Soft coated wheatons also have issues (which is too bad, I love the breed), bulldogs.  Other breeds and breed clubs have conformation standards that have allowed breeders to breed to the standard while maintaining the health of the lines.  Of course, some of the breeds with problems have them due to either inbreeding or, as seen in QH thanks to Impressive, a genetic disease that a major winning/popular line carried. 

I have to say I ahve been impressed by the standards upheld by the Yorkshire Terrier Club of America for it's members.  They encourage the breeding of vigorous dogs and ban members from breeding and marketing practices that are currently 'trandy' (ie, members cannot use teacup, mini, or dollface to refer to their dogs in advertising or marketing studs and/or litters).

I also have to say that the yorkshire breeders I have spoken to that show in the AKC do not breed any bitch below five lbs.  One woman I know just finished her 6.5 lb stud and has some nicely sized girls coming up. 

Oh, and I concur on the poodlesx cocker, retriever, or lab often shedding.  My aunt got, from a shelter, a "second generation" labradoodle that sheds more than any dog I have ever met.  He's cute, but VERY high energy, high prey drive, and sheds like crazy.  Similarly, a friend with a cockerpoo- also a shelter dog but without info on breeding.

Also, having a terrier temperment does NOT preclude a dog from being good around other dogs.  In many cases that is due to lack of socialization or improper socialization (bad experiences).  I love terrier temperments.  In fact, one of my yorkshires just helped raise her THIRD litter of kittens (I bottlefeed, she does everything else from cleaning them to sleeping with them).  All our dogs get along very well, and we have several 'terrier' temperments in the house.

jen July 10th, 2009 11:26:09 PM

I used to walk a Goldendoodle.  Nice enough dog, I guess, but every time I saw the clouds of  blonde dog hair on the floor at his house, I wondered if the owner had thought they were getting a non-shedding dog.

In the last 16 years, I've had 2 dogs from breeders and 3 from rescue.  The first purebred Aussie we got was an absolutely amazing dog that totally made me rethink everything I thought I knew about dogs.  She had a crazy hard temperament that I liked very much, but she wasn't physically sound, and developed epilepsy before she died at 8 of cancer.  :(

Our rescue dogs have been Aussies or Aussie crosses. One had terrible conformation, bad hips and probably bad elbows, but still lived to be 15.  Another developed exocrine pancreatic insufficiency and masseter muscle myositis.  He's almost 13, and still with us, still taking expensive supplements so he can digest his food.  Another mix lived to be 15, but had some doggy Alzheimer's equivalent the last few years of his life.  He'd had seizures when he was younger too.

Our youngest dog (almost 5 now) came from a breeder who does all the health checks on parents and pups.  This time we were ready to pay more for a dog that had at least a chance of coming from good stock.  He's a beautiful dog too, and the healthiest one we've had so far.  (knock on wood.)

It's heartbreaking to fall in love with a dog and then see them have so many problems.  We were ready for a break.

Janice in GA July 10th, 2009 11:33:39 PM

Thanks Elizabeth!  I didn't think so... but I've never bred/shown/or owned a Purebred dog and wasn't sure.

Meghan RAHT July 11th, 2009 12:20:36 AM

On the issue of finding the ideal dog, health-wise, I'm sure you're all aware that it's a crap-shoot. Still, there are ways to mitigate your risk. 

Yes, crosses are less likely to have inherited specific genetic diseases particular to a breed, but that's not always the case. After all, both breeds crossed may have a predisposition to hip dysplasia or a certain form of cardiomyopathy, for example.

In the case of backyard-bred or puppymill designer dogs the problem is typically more pronounced because it's often the case that both dogs are poor quality of x breed with none of the testing that should be undertaken under their belt. It's also the case in these instances that a great many pups are being produced. Further, a "sire effect" is often a problem. This means that one ever-ready male is responsible for hundreds of offspring. if he's got a major problem (skin disease, hip dysplasia, etc.) that'll very quickly translate into hundreds of pups with more of the same. 

The healthiest mutt, statistically, is one whose provenance is nearly undecipherable. The three generations away dingo-esque dog is always best. And it really only takes three generations of total outcrossing to get there. That's the Bahamas dog or what in my area goes by the name of Miami-Dade County Dingo. 

Dr. Patty Khuly July 11th, 2009 09:01:57 AM

The healthiest mutt, statistically, is one whose provenance is nearly undecipherable. The three generations away dingo-esque dog is always best. And it really only takes three generations of total outcrossing to get there. That's the Bahamas dog or what in my area goes by the name of Miami-Dade County Dingo.

Or you could get a healthy dog from a long line of healthy dogs, whose health is not guesswork and odds because the breeder carefully studied pedigrees and did responsible, appropriate health screening. With the added bonus that, for people for whom a dingo is not an appropriate pet, you can find one of those responsible breeders who is in a breed that is appropriate for you.

There are no 100% guarantess when you're dealing with living beings, but getting a healthy dog can be a great deal better than "a crap-shoot," if you tak the time to do some research instead of buying from your most convenient puppymil outlet (pet store) or BYB.

Lis July 11th, 2009 09:39:18 AM

... if they are paying you to groom their dog, vaccinate their dog, purchase products from you, etc.... just be happy for the business!! 

Really, why would you leave comments here specifically directed at the folks sharing their love for their cockapoo, or their labradoodle.....   Do you think it is okay to talk ill of other people's family members?

Please go get yourself a designer mutt and in a year or so please tell me if you love it any less because it doesn't have papers or because it is prone to this or that disease.... or because, GASP, you have to cut out a mat or two or three or four on occasion.  

JH July 11th, 2009 10:37:22 AM

JH- Though it may seem like it, I don't think that the comments were all aimed at the puppy buyers necessarily.  I get frustrated and angry with the money hungry puppy mill types that are cashing in on designer breeds.  I feel sorry for the general public that falls for the sales pitch and ends up with a lemon.  I realize that they LOVE their lemon, whichi s why it is so sad when I, or one of the vets I work with has to give them the news that their beloved lemon has an inherited problem that will result in huge veterinary cost, endless suffering or euthanasia.  I just wish more people would consult their vet before making that purchase because all the heartache CAN be avoided.  WHen people buy from puppy mills and pet stores they spend a lot, usually get a sick or poorly bred pet, and are surprised when they face these vet bills and euthanaisa sometimes only DAYS after they get their new puppy.  ANd the pet store/puppy mill profits and keeps selling dogs! 

Meghan RAHT July 11th, 2009 10:56:20 AM

Please go get yourself a designer mutt and in a year or so please tell me if you love it any less because it doesn't have papers or because it is prone to this or that disease.... or because, GASP, you have to cut out a mat or two or three or four on occasion.

JH, go hug your designer mutt, look into his or her eyes, and say, "I love you so much that I don't care that your mom and dad live in cages barely six inch longer than their bodies, never leave those cages exept to be put together to breed, have never run in the grass or rolled in the mud, have no toys, have never felt a loving human hand, that your mom is bred every single heat and will be until she wears out, can't produce anymore, and is thrown on the trash heap--literally, thrown on the trash heap. That her puppies, including you, are all taken from her at six weeks or younger, when they still need her mothering and she is not yet ready to give them up. That she gets no vet care except maybe a rabies shot because it's legally mandated. I love you so much that it won't rip the heart out of me if you develop a crippling genetic problem that will force me to euthanise you at far too young an age...

I have a breed that doesn't shed, and does mat, and I love the work involved in keeping her clean, mat-free, and beautiful. BUT, I knew what I was getting into, because I bought an actual purebred (known genetics with predictable characteristics in the adult dog) from a responsible breeder (who did all health testing appropriate to the breed, could show me the test results AND pictures of several generations of my dog's ancestors, and who told me the truth about the work involved in maintaining the coat in either of the popular styles for the breed, and who is there to answer questions and provide support when I run into problems.)

I didn't buy a dog whose genetics were unpredictable because she's a mixed breed, along with a bill of goods from the "breeder" promising me that she was magically both non-shedding and non-matting, and wind up with a dog who both sheds and matts. And I didn't get a dog who arrived with parvo or distemper, and I didn't have major vet bills within a few months due to genetic conditions that anyone who had looked at the parents and their ancestry would have known were lying in wait for all the puppy buyers.

What's heartbreaking and awful about these cases is that, in addition to the suffering of the dog, the owners' hearts are usually breaking, too. And it is prevcentable.

Lis July 11th, 2009 11:22:07 AM

Um, that should have been "preventable." :(

Lis July 11th, 2009 11:24:33 AM

It's not mixed breed dogs that I have a problem with. I know plenty of absolutely lovely mutts gotten from the shelter. What I have a problem with is atrocious breeding practices, whether those be of purebred or mixed dogs. And with the people who continue to line their pockets with money, who continue to support those breeding practices, who continue to selfishly buy puppies because ZOMG CUTE MUST HAVE NOW!!! and never a second thought to the hell the parents continue to suffer in.

Do purebred dogs have health problems? Sure. So do mixed breed dogs. A lot more depends on where the dog comes from than what breed(s) the dog is. A carefully bred dog with a known background whose breeder uses every available tool to produce healthy, sound dogs (and who stands behind those dogs no matter what) is going to be far better off than one from a breeder who pumps out pups for bucks and once you've paid the money, they've washed their hands of that pup.

I've seen so many broken hearts at the hands of millers and internet sellers. It's so sad and so unnecessary.

Katie July 11th, 2009 12:05:44 PM

Karen

I wasn't disappointed in Socks.. I wasn't concerned with him matting, or shedding.. I wanted a spaniel, as I've always had them, and loved their personalities.. I also needed a dog that was hypoallergenic.. Sock doesn't shed.. and he doesn't seem to be offending our allergies.. He also doesn't mat up.. I brush him, and bath him once a week.. He gets groomed about every two months.. I keep his coat about 2".. It's very fine.

My brother has a golden doodle.. She doesn't shed, but mats up.. She's a groomers worst nightmare.. Otherwise she is a great dog..  Health is good, but has an intolerence to some people food..

barri July 11th, 2009 01:13:44 PM

Some puppy mills were shut down in our state recently.  I do rescue and have two dogs from there.  One is 6 pounds, looks to be Papillon/Chihauhau and she has had at least one litter despite being an orthopedic disaster.  I've given her one surgery in addition to her spay.  She could probably use more repair to her other back leg but we're waiting.  She had to have teeth removed so that now she has just a few left.  She has a beautiful little face and the web site where these dogs were advertised (as "family reared") mentions pretty faces.  The dogs were in an outbuilding, hundreds of dogs in stacked cages.

The other came out of the mill as an intact male, looks like mostly papillon with probably chi.  He has blue eyes which do not track together, and his hips have not developed fully, probably because of his confinement -- he is well-developed in front, but looks kind of like a jackal in that his rear end is small.  He runs okay with some stumbling and he's a happy little guy now.  He had to have many teeth removed also. 

Both were terrified of people when they came here.  They are fine now -- I intended to foster and then rehome them but my husband and I fell in love with them after all the work of potty training and careful getting them to trust us - so now they are our dogs.

The legal system here is dealing with the owners of the puppy mills.  But they pop up elsewhere as soon as one is closed.  Too much profit -- the woman who had these little mutts was selling them for $1200 each.

Catherine July 11th, 2009 01:52:00 PM

Not all dogs are created equal.  Yes, I abhore the idea of buying from a pet store  and I rather buy from a rescue or pound.  

I got both my boys from local rescues-one a purebred (Shetland Sheepdog) and a mutt (Border CollieXSt. Bernard-"St. Bollie" as I call him). 

They both have problems.  I got them both as young pups (3 mos and 9 weeks, respectivley) and neither one of them are "breed standards" as far as health or personality.  My Sheltie has anxiety issues and gets car sick even if we drive around the block.  I know shyness is a breed trait, but he's more shy than most.  As far as health goes, he's in good physical health.

My other boy has GI issues and gets diarreah at least twice a month.  He's been on so many antibiotics, that I'm surprised his shadow doesn't glow by now..LOL...  BUT, he's in great mental health-very happy, laid back, outgoing-loves-everyone dog I've ever had. 

 Oh, and I've stopped telling everyone he's a BC/St. bernard Mix.  1) I don't want to give everyone the impression that he's a "designer dog" and he was "on purpose" and 2) I don't want to give anyone an idea..LOL.  I just think St. Bollie is a fun name.  :)

Stacey July 13th, 2009 10:12:46 AM

I'm reading this thread, and noticed the comments about how a shelter dog is very chancy re temperament.

Has anyone considered hiring a dog trainer/behaviorist to help select the dog from the shelter? That is what I did when I got Goodman, and it worked out wonderfully.  Esp. when getting an adult (Goodman was about 2y/o when I got him), where a lot of the personality is in place already, it really helps to have someone slightly more objective than me evaluate the dog and the match to my home.

Xslf July 13th, 2009 10:15:03 AM

Karen -

It's a Spinone Italiano. I have one sitting at my feet.

You have no idea how many people ask us if she's a doodle

Barri -

There's no such thing as a hypo-allergenic dog. it's a term created to help sell mixed breed dogs by toting them as some magical creature that doesn't produce allergens.

My aunt has terrible dog allergies - but she lived with a soft coated wheaten that didn't bother her allergies at all.

Katie - i completely agree. Mixed breed- pure breed- it doesn't matter as long as care is taken with the breeding to mimize genetic and health issues and temperment issues.

More often than not, that's not the case with mutt breeders

Sarah July 13th, 2009 12:05:16 PM

JH: By your measure I should be elated simply that anyone cares to give me their business. But that's not how my practice works. And that's certainly not why I entered this profession. I see my job as ministering to the sick and fostering wellness in my patients--and I want to enjoy it...while teaching my clients how to be better pet owners. 

In my practice, and through this blog, I attempt to educate--perhaps snarkily at times--that dealing with those who would take advantage your ignorance by selling you a "designer dog" may mean you're buying an animal that's been pre-abused via built-in flaws and genetic landmines. Not always, but often. For example, I know Barri well enough by now to know she did her homework. But a great many of my "designer pooch" clients? Not so much. They're truly disappointed when their teacup hits 15 pounds. They're frustrated and heartbroken when they can't pay for the liver shunt surgery on a puppymill maltepoo. 

It's human nature to be swayed by labels and papers and seals of approval, falsified or not. And you're right, love transcends all flaws and labels. But this post is more about those who would abuse animals by breeding unwisely for monetary gain and then abuse people's trust via "designer" and "imported" marketing tactics. And it's also about those who fall for it...because they don't know enough to research where most of these animals really come from. These pet owners perpetuate the problem. They deserve to know where they went wrong and how they can do better next time...for the sake of everyone involved. 

Dr. Patty Khuly July 13th, 2009 12:38:27 PM

There's no such thing as a hypo-allergenic dog. it's a term created to help sell mixed breed dogs by toting them as some magical creature that doesn't produce allergens.

"Hypo-allergenic." "Non-allergenic." Two different words, two different meanings.

There's no such thing as a non-allergenic dog, a dog that no one would have an allergic reaction to. There are hypo-allergenic dogs--dogs that are less likely to trigger the allergies of someone with allergy problems.

My aunt has terrible dog allergies - but she lived with a soft coated wheaten that didn't bother her allergies at all.

And Wheatons are an excellent example of a hypo-allergenic breed, a breed that's significantly more likely to work for someone who has dog allergies.

The reason it's important to preserve the distinction between the two words, and what they each mean, because otherwise it becomes very difficult to have an intelligent discussion of what people who are allergic but would like to have dogs should do. It's critical to realize that neither all hypo-allergenic breeds nor all allergic people are created equal. If you're considering a particular breed because of its hypo-allergenic qualities, it's vital to make an opportunity to spend at least several hours with some of those dogs. It's also important to know that if one hypo-allergenic breed doesn't work for you, another one might. Don't give up too easily.

And the other thing it's important to know is that you should avoid mixed breeds claimed to be hypo-allergenic, or at an absolute minimum, spend several hours with the specific individual dog that you would be taking home, because despite what the designer mutt breeders tell you, there is NO guarantee that the mix wiill inherit the traits you want it to inherit from each parent. Lots of doodle mixes are highly allergenic.

Lis July 13th, 2009 09:03:35 PM

Sarah, Thank you for correcting my spelling on your breed, the sturdy Spinone Italiano.

Barri, your brothers dog SHEDS into MATS! Duh...how do you think they form??? Glad you love Socks, but I was not criticizing your pet. I guarantee he sheds. May not have as much dander as a full blooded cocker spaniel, but definitely not as light as a poodle.

Poodles DO shed, gang...like you or I. They just shed curly HAIR.

There are high shed dogs, moderate shed dogs, low shed dogs...what makes people allergic is the fur dander that breeds that have fur and not hair shed. Some people cannot tolerate even the low shed hair breed dogs' dander...so there is NO such thing as a dog that does not have dander and thus any dog could cause allergy attacks. Hair breeds, like the Wheaton and the Poodles are better tolerated then breeds with fur.

 'nuff fur now...

Karen July 13th, 2009 11:33:17 PM

Lis -

I would respectfully, disagree. The difintion for hypoallergenic is:

"Hypoallergenic- adjective. Definition: non-allergy producing." (Blakiston's Medical Dictionary)

This though "And the other thing it's important to know is that you should avoid mixed breeds claimed to be hypo-allergenic, or at an absolute minimum, spend several hours with the specific individual dog that you would be taking home, because despite what the designer mutt breeders tell you, there is NO guarantee that the mix wiill inherit the traits you want it to inherit from each parent. Lots of doodle mixes are highly allergenic."

I agree with 100%. You summed it up very nicely.

Sarah July 14th, 2009 11:05:18 AM

I would respectfully, disagree. The difintion for hypoallergenic is:

"Hypoallergenic- adjective. Definition: non-allergy producing." (Blakiston's Medical Dictionary)

"Hypo" doesn't mean "non"; it means "low." If we meekly accept the re-definition of "hypo-allergenic" as synonymous with "non-allergenic", we lose the ability to discuss, not just dogs and allergies, but anything at all and allergies.

We need both words, they don't mean the same thing, and we need them to go on not meaning the same thing.

Lis July 14th, 2009 02:39:11 PM

I'm really laughing.. I'm reading arguments on the definition of words.. I guess I have too much to do to get into the argument.. I just know that I made the right choice for my family.. One brother has a golden doodle, and the other had a wheaten that just passed away from cancer at the age of seven..

barri July 15th, 2009 02:15:41 PM

 We're very proud of our German Sockhound.  He is absolutely pure dog and one-of-a-kind. In other words, I love my mutt, we have no idea what he is but DNA testing would ruin the fun party game of guessing what his ancestry may be.

tattooheathen July 16th, 2009 03:53:49 PM

There is nothing wrong with owning a mutt, there are many mutts in shelters and on the streets needing homes and love.  They are loving creatures and can make wonderful pets.  

I own three dogs.  One is a purebred AKC Chinese Crested with AKC registered parents, one a rescued Chinese Crested whose ancestry is completely unknown, and one a cross between (as far as we can ascertain) a Chihuahua and a West Highland Terrier.  

The cross is just that, a cross.  She is not a "Chestie" or a "Westi-Chi" or any other cute name.  She was given to me by her owner's brother after the owner had gone back to Mexico, leaving the dog behind.  He wanted to find the dog a loving home, and I was looking for a puppy at the time.  Match made in heaven, and I love her dearly, however, she is a mutt.  There is nothing special about a mutt, except that it deserves love, too.  

Too many dogs, whether purebred or mutt, end up in rescues and shelters because of irresponsible breeding.  The world can only home so many dogs, and there's clearly an abundance of unwanted animals.  Breed specific rescues have no shortage of dogs needing homes, many of which are purebred and some of which even have known ancestry.  

Owning a purebred, AKC registered dog is certainly not a guarantee of health.  My AKC Crested has been remarkably unhealthy over the past two years with a variety of immune-mediated and other issues which seem to stem from a variety of causes, some of which could well be genetic; we don't know.  His littermate was epileptic and his grandsire passed away from some mysterious malady, and breeders are tight lipped when it comes to illnesses in their dogs.  Responsible breeders will test for all known genetic problems in the breed, but not all problems can be predicted or tested.  Even some breeders who have good reputations may be unknowingly passing along poor genetics.  

The real problem is very simple, to my mind.  Too many dogs are being produced by people who think it's a quick way to make money.  Puppy mills produce poor quality purebreds and mixes alike and don't care about the health problems they pass on from one generation to the next.  As long as they can sell a puppy before the problems become apparent, they are making a profit.  With a mix, you have the added problem (as has been pointed out) that the way the mix of traits will present is completely unpredictable.  My Westie Chi mix looks like a little Westie with Chihuahua ears.  I've seen others that looked like chihuahuas with some Westie traits.  Her behavior combines the worst of both breeds, as she's yappy, prey driven, and standoffish with strangers.  She hates children.  Luckily I knew enough about the traits of both breeds to not be unsettled by her peculiarities.  I still love her but, inBB some other home, she may well have ended up in a shelter after all.  

A dog like this likely came from a true backyard breeder-- someone who crossed a dog with a neighbor's dog, because they wanted to see if they'd make cute puppies and didn't care about having to rehome the ones they didn't want, or maybe even an oops litter.  There is so much irresponsible breeding of dogs that I really feel I can only stand in support of the very best of the best, those breeders who take the time to responsibly research known ancestries and make intelligent decisions about the dogs they breed together, then health test for every known, testable problem and make sure those dogs who end up with undetermined problems are neutered and do not reproduce.  

If everyone who creates dogs (I can't even call them all breeders) would do these things, we'd have far fewer unwanted dogs.  But since it's all about money for so many people, as long as there's a market for dogs that don't meet these standards, it is a problem that will never go away.  

BTW, except for a rehoming fee to the Chinese Crested rescue for my rescued dog, I have never spent a penny to acquire a pet, and never will.   

Louie's Mom July 17th, 2009 05:14:56 PM

I don't understand the lab/poodle craze. I wanted a big non shedding dog as a service dog, so I bought a Stardard Poodle form a breeder who was breeding health tested show dogs that also work as service dogs. I'm not understanding the point of a lab/poodle cross. I know they were doing something with giude dogs in Aus, but if you don't need a GD, why would you bother?

Keldrena July 17th, 2009 05:27:37 PM

If I was going to actually go out and purchase a dog (not have it find me/fall into my lap) it would have to be from a breeder who did all the tests for the breed, and interviewed the heck out of me, and truly bred for the love of the breed and not the almighty dollar. I have nothing against mutts, I've loved plenty, and I have nothing against purebreeds, but I have a whole LOT against folks who breed stupidly, cause dogs (or any other species) to suffer because they bred animals that have obvious issues, and I really have a whole lot more against folks who buy from those idiots. Too many dogs (and other animals) die every day because there's a lack of homes, and in a world now where there's a rescue group for pretty much every breed, age, etc (we have small dog rescue here, even, not breed specific, as well as old dog rescue, etc) never mind what's in the shelters, to encourage someone to make a something-a-poo or a whatchacallit-doodle, makes me ill.

And one of the lights of my life is a "bagel", half basset, half beagle, rescued.

End rant.

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