I’ve been having lots of fun this summer with my two dogs, my 11 year-old son and a Wednesday night “basic behavior and manners” training class at a local vet hospital (not mine).
The trainer, one Dee Hoult, is smart, appropriate and positively inclined. I’ve learned new ways to teach the basics––without pulling or much correction at all. I don’t even think I’ve used the word “no” the entire time. “Off” and “leave it” are as far as I have to go now. “Sit,” “stay,” “come,” “down” and “up” are all under our belt by now. “Good dogs” are in abundance. And heel is happening without ever using the word.
Sure, the treats help, as does the daily homework and the “nothing-in-life-is-free” methodology. But the tidbits are phased out by the end of every homework session and the sits come readily and treat-free now for everything from food bowl placement to walking out the door.
We still have a long way to go, especially with the crate entry and car manners. Slumdog absolutely HATES loading into his crate, his vehicle etiquette is atrocious even with the seatbelt and the pop-ups from the sit and down position are still way to frequent. But we’re getting somewhere. Vincent is now far more responsive to my son’s commands and a formerly uncontrolled Slumdog is actually listening. Shocking!
But the interesting thing is not the actual success of training––that, we all know, works magic with simple [if frustrating] hard work. Instead, the eye-opener was the varied implementation of rewards in the case of each individual dog and owner.
Sure, it’s easy to understand that some dogs are motivated by treats, others by toys and most by simple praise and basic love. But it’s not just about the dogs. It’s about the people, too. And people are interesting.
The women? Lots of treats. And sometimes fluffy toys. The men? They love rope toys and gear (“gentle leaders” andfrontclip harnesses). And definitely the clickers. Our class seemed stratified into two such camps. Those with gear and tough toys. Those with treats and soft toys. Odd, right?
Maybe not. But the clicker obsession evidenced by my son was most obvious to me. The way he picked it up with such perfect timing. In fact, I sucked at making the sound at the exact right moment while he never missed a beat. All week, he could not be parted from his clicker.
Men and their tools. Women and their nurturing. I so hate to do this again to you so soon after the post on men and cats, but God, how fast these boy/girl differences seem to hold. Even at so young an age. Or maybe it's just a personality thing and my class just happens to divide along chromosomal party lines. Either way it seems the only thing that invariably unites us is the desire to praise...and the adoration, of course.
PS: A sincere thank you for the photo goes to Ellen Finch, whose hand and pup are pictured. Here's the original link on Wikipedia, which happens to offer an excellent description of clicker training for those who have no experience with this method.
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I tend to disagree on the clicker being more for men than women. I loved the clicker right away and use it frequently espically as I'm trying to target specific behaviours toward and end goal. My husband who hasn't really used a clicker has had a hard time getting the timing right and he's very generous with treats. Now this might be that I've done the majority of training with our dog but who knows.
Clickers are exact, and for kids they are great because they can target the cue right away and not have to worry about saying the right word. Keep trying, you'll get the hang of it. Just remember that even a opps click, gets the treat.
Kathy July 16th, 2009 12:25:48 PM
I'm so bad with the clicker. I keep losing it, too. Kinda hard to reinforce with a click when I can't find the darn thing.
Dr. Patty Khuly July 16th, 2009 01:02:19 PM
I'd say I have had more luck demanding obediance than requesting it. The men in my life have always tended to ask the animals to do something, instead of expecting them to obey. My men have always been about fun and rewards first, so the obediance never really followed. I really think if you don't allow room for the possibility of disobedience, you won't get it. And let me tell you, enforcing it is very important. I still have a problem with my lab, Charlie. I can't tell you how many times I've run into the snow (rain, etc)in my socks (jammies, etc) because when I called him in he'd just look up and continue on his merry way! I've had different outcomes with different training philosophies:
My current dog, Charlie (a big lug of a lab), I bribed shamelessly with treats, I tried various collars, finally settling with the gentle leader. Even still, he's the type of dog that just does whatever he wants. He KNOWS his commands, but CHOOSES to ignore them a lot of the time. (I have tried many different techniques with the same results) I still consistently have to enforce my commands with him far too often, but now that he's 11, I just don't see that changing any time soon ;) He's the only dog I've had that had to go to a professional training school, and I'm sure they only "passed" him because he's such a happy goof!
My previous dog RT (shep collie cross)was a dream. I trained her with no treats, no negative reinforcement. When I snapped my fingers (I have a very crisp and loud finger snap) she obeyed instantly.But unlike the clicker, I would snap as soon as (or instead of) a verbal command. My philosophy when training her was "You'll do what I say because I'm the boss". It worked for her. She lived for my love and praise. We practised often and it was sheer repetition that trained her. She turned out to be the type of dog that would obey in ANY circumstance.
charliebear22 July 16th, 2009 01:08:14 PM
I tried using tongue clicks with the horse because I thought it was easier/less to keep up with. But my accuracy was way off(I suspect) because going back to the actual clicker has gotten much better results. So now the clicker lives in my pocket with the cookies. And Horsie actually works to get his ears in reach so I will finally click him darnit! (Instead of the previous "OH NOES! Not the ears!" reaction.)
Karen Pryor's latest book is a really good read-stories and science!
redheather July 16th, 2009 01:12:29 PM
I'm a woman and I LOVE dog gear AND treats and toys! My dog doesn't really like toys unless they dispense food, so I buy him every treat dispensing toy out there. He has several collars and harnesses and we use the clicker for learning new things, but belly rubs or ear scritches are staple rewards.
I think that part of loving the gear is the enjoyment I get from "spoiling" him without actually spoiling him. He doesn't care that he has 3 handmade collars or a fancy new water bowl, but it's a way for me to indulge my desire to pamper him without stuffing him full of treats.
In my classes I don't notice a difference between men and women when it comes to clicker obsession, but if there's a kid in the class I can bet money that he or she will be the best clicker in the room.
Smaki July 16th, 2009 01:23:14 PM
Kids are practically born with their fingers on a "clicker" these days -- game boy, x-box, texting. Their brains are wired to press down when they see the stimulus that calls for it.
Not gender, generation.
And really, rather worrisome in a larger sense.
H. Houlahan July 16th, 2009 01:42:40 PM
I teach classes at a local petstore part time. I have found that the kids are GREAT with clickers. I am not a gamer, so I didn't put it together, but my husband did. Like H.Houlahan said - video games! Teaches them perfect timing. Most of the times the kids can't tell you exactly why they clicked - but their brain recognized that the dog did something right, so that finger pushes the button. Fun to watch.
teri July 16th, 2009 02:13:55 PM
What, other than love or treats, can be used to train a dog?
My mom is partial to maltese and she has her 2nd, a 2 year old female. This dog hates to eat. She is just not about food.
Like all my mom's previous dogs, she is not well trained (my mom lacks the patience to hold up her end of the training role). She does "fetch" partially (she will run and get the toy, but giving it back to you? Not so much.)
I wonder, though, what could even be used to "train" this dog since she does not respond to treats. She is being loved on all the time so love probably wouldn't do it either. I guess the toy would be the only thing.
Stefani July 16th, 2009 03:11:43 PM
"The women? Lots of treats. And sometimes fluffy toys. The men? They love rope toys and gear ("gentle leaders" andfrontclip harnesses)."
When we were first married and visiting out my wife would say, "It's time to go" and stick a hard candy in my mouth...
I guess I'm willing to try the harness...
Bob Jones July 16th, 2009 03:23:05 PM
So glad someone finally convinced you those Frenchies could be trained. :-))))))))) So glad you found a trainer who could appropriately train you. :-))))))))
I hate what I call "gadget training". I'm going to start a movement called "nekkid training" where all you have is you and the dog. No leash even. OK,OK, you can keep treats in your mouth — if you must.
(My clicker has a wrist coil on it so I don't misplace it. I hate that blasted clicker, but I find a use for it occasionally and reach for it from my training toolbox when I need to.)
Deanna July 16th, 2009 03:24:21 PM
Bob, you are hy-larious!! Keep posting.
Deanna July 16th, 2009 03:26:34 PM
Most of my dogs weren't big on obedience, but loved agility. My clicker was a bit off cue, but soon I caught on. I found the girls loved food rewards & the boys were mostly disinterested in food but always busy scoping out the place. I used praise with them & sometimes a squeaker toy.
My oldest in agility was 9 1/2 ...pokey in the class--as speed wasn't her middle name. But she dutifully did all the exercises. I was no Miss Coordination, either---but fun we had!
Zoey Tickles
Dr. K: Please rename slumdog----
Pocket's Story from NH--- My Photos page
Barbara A./NH July 16th, 2009 05:14:59 PM
Fascinating!
Clickers are from Mars, Goodies are from Venus, I s'pose.
PS: Slumdog's a great name, reminds people that a wonderful pet came from the mean streets. I vote to keep the name.
oh holland July 16th, 2009 06:06:05 PM
Personally, I've had a sex change over the years. I've learned to do what the guys do - it seems to work better; although I prefer a whistle to a clicker. My critters have long memories and when the treats are cut down, so is their obedient behavior!
PJBoosinger July 16th, 2009 06:17:18 PM
I rarely use clickers. I hate the sound and the extra thing to keep track of. However sometimes it is needed for that little bit of extra precision for some dogs. For deaf dogs I use a thumbs up hand signal as a marker.
I normally use a marker word of Yes! instead. (good dog works well for some people who just cant seem to remember yes)
Never noticed a difference in that specific way before. My male clients avoid the head collars because most don't seem to mind the dog yanking on them like the women in my experience.
There are SO many ways to train dogs. It is mainly about being clear in your communication regardless of methods.
Glad you and your son are having fun with the training! (and the dogs to of course)
http://k-9solutionsdogtraininginc.blogspot.com
Marie July 16th, 2009 09:15:10 PM
My service dog school uses clickers and GLs. According to my trainer, it really helps get the precision we need on many behaviors. My SDIT is doing great with clicker training and gentle leader. I didn't find it hard to phase out treats at all, once he knew what I wanted.
Keldrena July 16th, 2009 10:14:36 PM
I was all about the clicker when I decided to start training the cats. Alas, the two ferals (who were, at the time, still relatively feral) were totally petrified of the thing. I devised other methods, and I've found that I don't miss it.
It's probably for the better, though... I would often find myself absentmindedly clicking the thing when I wasn't paying attention. Me + clicker probably ultimately = very confused animal.
I will confess, though... it's going to be a couple of years before my schedule and housing arrangements are conducive to dog ownership, but I am already scoping out all the gear. (And, yeah, I'm a chick.)
Ramen Connoisseur July 17th, 2009 01:24:15 AM
Interesting point on the kids and clickers. Makes a lot of sense. Never thought about it that way, though my son's mad video gaming skills should have clued me in. ;-)
As to "Slumdog": my mother HATES the name, too. She refuses to call him that. Thinks it's somehow not-so-PC. She calls him Billy. Whatever. It kind of sounds like Slummy, which we call him at times. No matter, he responds to everything at this point. I just can't help calling him Slumdog. It's exactly what he looks like.
Dr. Patty Khuly July 17th, 2009 09:36:58 AM
Interesting perspective. Around here, where lots of people do dog agility and most of them are women, tugging play and clickers are commonly used (as well as treats and lots of loving). I love clicker training and so have all of my dogs, male or female. Their attention level goes way up as soon as the clicker comes out, as you can tell by the photo of my dog with my clicker that you've got at the top of your article. Glad you like the photo and I'm delighted that it's being used, but please add a visible link back to its source on Wikipedia with some kind of note that that's where it came from (e.g., "photo from Wikipedia"), which would be the basic minimum requirement for using photos from WP. Thanks!
Ellen Finch July 17th, 2009 01:52:42 PM
Stefani, you could try having your mom find that toy the dog wants, but as long as she's not really that interested either, it just won't work. Sometimes its just being allowed to do what the do wants: ie, dog wants to go for a walk. Dog must sit down at door before it opens. So your mom tells dog to sit, hand signal whatever, until dog sits, door doesn't open. Dog sits, door opens, walk ensue's.... same thing with getting to the beach etc. Whatever skill you want to work, reward with activity dog wants.
I use "yes" also along with clicker. I find both enforcing, when you don't have clicker, yes works just as well although maybe not as accurate.
Kathy July 17th, 2009 07:14:31 PM
Ellen: So sorry. Someone else must have copied it from Wiki as I found it in my favorite no-holds-barred spot for animal photos. Please accept my apologies and I would love to make it up to you somehow. Feel free to contact me personally via the "contact us" page.
Maybe you can consider yourself honored? In any case, thanks for your perfectly illustrative photo. I'll remove it if you'd prefer. No arguments against the righteous.
Dr. Patty Khuly July 17th, 2009 09:47:15 PM
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