"Men and women are different. On this we agree. But why?"

Oh dear. If you could answer that question with a reasonable degree of accuracy, you would be a rich woman.

Karl Katzke July 9th, 2009 12:32:22 PM

I haven't read the study yet but I did read the excellent NY Times piece. The user comments were even more entertaining. Of course cats don't peform "directed tasks." There the ones directing the orders. :)

Jason Merrihew July 9th, 2009 12:57:08 PM

I had the most interesting experience at the feline practice I designed and opened. Single men and single women clients appeared equal in numbers as well as same sex couples. What was really a neat surprise was what I observed about families, including those with children; the husbands outnumbered wives by 3 to 1 in regard to who the primary caregiver for the cat (s) was. I've always prided my so-called ability to weigh demographics fairly accurately, but I admit to being off a little, and this was a fun pattern to encounter.

Renee July 9th, 2009 01:11:22 PM

Renee: I had the same experience when I worked on South Beach. But that was a very gay-male demographic compared to where I work now (mostly upscale Latin-American). 

Dr. Patty Khuly July 9th, 2009 02:01:41 PM

I guess my little family is confused b/c I am the one who lobbied for the dog while my hubby is fond of our kitties. (He's fond of the dog too now that we have her.)

I haven't had a chance to read the study yet, but your comments about the "utility" of cats and their desire/ ability to take directions seem spot on as a justification for men preferring dogs.  I've actually heard a man say he doesn't like cats b/c they are smarter than him.  That said, I don't agree with the generalization that men prefer dogs over cats.  I know plenty of men who have pet cats.  It seems (IMO) that more people are allergic to cats than dogs, or at least, that more people are able to live with their dog allergies.  I'd argue that the allergy factor has more to do with preference/ perception.

On a side note, I've trained my kitties to sit & stay on command.  They think they should get a treat every time, but they'll do it even if they don't see the treat bag.

Posey July 9th, 2009 02:09:22 PM

I'm a young female and despite being owned by three cats I still consider myself a dog person.  Don't get me wrong, I love my cats and in my list of priorities they are third (only after and just barely after my family and friends).  Dogs are just so much work and I'm not home nearly enough to take care of one right now.

That being said most of my single girlfriends have a cat or two and most single guys I know have nothing.

Shannon July 9th, 2009 03:54:21 PM

It's a territory thing.  When you realize that men are evolved from dogs, not apes, then it becomes clear.  Apes don't have dens. When I was single, being the AAA alpha male that I am, I would enter the club and mark territory. You're mine! You're mine too! And nobody knows what a female ape is called.

When we moved into this house the neighbor had several dogs which would growl and snarl at the back fence whenever I went back there. So I mixed a urine sample with some ammonia in a spray bottle and went and marked the back fence while they watched.  Yep, down on all fours going through the motion.  After they had checked it out, they didn't bother me anymore... and when I walk down the street all the other dogs stand up and salute.

Dogs understand the territory thing. It comes natural for them. If you are not the alpha for your dog you will have psychotic behavior problems from him. (You should see how psychotic I can get.)

Most cats don't understand it. My daughter found some ferrel kittens tht hadn't opened their eyes yet, so we adopted them and bottle fed them.  Two adorable Calicos.  One thinks my daughter is mama, but my wife can play surrogate, and the other thinks I am.  They are nearly a year old now, but because they have no contact outside they haven't lost their kitten behaviors.

They greet me at the door when I get up in the morning and within five minutes of sitting at the computer one is in my lap looking for attention.  They have no aggression towards us though they play and tumble with each other.  We can rub their fur backwards, and give them baths without complaints because we have handled them such from the beginning.

By simply acknowleging that it is my territory, they get to stay.

Bob Jones July 9th, 2009 04:18:09 PM

I am conident enough in my masculinity to divulge that I sleep with 2 cats nightly.

Hobson July 9th, 2009 04:35:28 PM

I meant "confident"

Hobson July 9th, 2009 04:36:16 PM

Thank you for the links, I will pass them on to my cat.  I have tried to tell him he doesn't need to bring me dead mice, but of course he doesn't take direction and the mice may not even be for me, they could be intended for the dogs. 

Anne July 9th, 2009 04:36:40 PM

Hobson: That must be why men who love cats are so cool. I agree they tend to be confident males. (They must be to take the ribbing they sometimes get for living with cats.)

Dr. Patty Khuly July 9th, 2009 05:08:55 PM

I tend to agree it's a type of territory issue.  My cats share turf but won't give an inch to the dogs because they'll take a mile.  My cats are cleaner too.  I still have the territory issue with my son: Don't "mark" your territory in MY house with your socks and underwear; if you absolutely must mark territory, go out in the yard and spray a fence or the lawn like a dog.  One of my dogs does something similar with toys.  I need more work?

"By simply acknowledging that it is my territory, they get to stay."  Yep, I know your type :) LOL  In my house, I make the rules and nobody gets to claim large areas of territory.  Of course, I guess that's just another way of saying it's all my territory without the need to leave a trail of clothes :)

Are men and women really all that different or do we just express the same things differently?

PJBoosinger July 9th, 2009 05:09:43 PM

Men and women are different. On this we agree. But why?

In Sex and War, Stan Goff, a former Special Forces sergeant, argues persuasively that rather than being born that way, men are made into killers by governments, corporations, and systems of power. Goff stares down the most brutal aspects of masculinity without flinching, as he opens up a crucial discussion about how we can get beyond being real men and beyond the cruel institutions and practices men have created. 

Evet July 9th, 2009 06:43:53 PM

Here is my sexist response to the question about sexism.  Its probably total BS but here goes--

I think the reason more men aren't cat people is the fact that cats are not slavishly adoring.  You must earn the love of most cats (there are exceptions).  Cats do not suffer fools.  Dogs love you by default, and you must do something to lose that love.  Moreover, a dog who loves his person never sees that the person is a fool, no matter how big of a fool he is.  Cats have your number, and you can see it on their faces.  They totally think they are smarter than you are.

Too many men are adored and coddled by their mothers, grow up thinking they are Gods gift, and expect to be treated that way, pretty much no matter how they behave.  Dogs are like your doting mother --- they think you are the best thing ever.  Men love to be unconditionally adored, moreover, they grow up to expect it, and  they can get it from a dog.

Also, dogs can help you get chicks. 

Women, OTOH, somehow seem to always want the one that is slightly out of reach.  Women may be repulsed by being slavishly and unconditionally adored.  When counseling men on how to behave with women, men are often reminded that "nice guys finish last."   

The aloofness of a cat is attractive to a woman as is the fact that we have to work for their love.

Also, we are conditioned (maybe its part biology) to be drawn to strength and independence.  Cats are independent, in the sense that they assert themselves.  We like this.  We admire it.  (Many men would find it threatening).

Not to mention, women really appreciate soft, silky, graceful things.  Cats are usually softer to the touch than most dogs (there are exceptions on both sides) and move with an aesthetics that is very appealing to female sensibilities.  Not to mention, they have no doggy smell and are usually fanatically clean.  We like this. 

Then there is the fact that we don't have to take cats outside for walks when it's 20 degrees.  We females expect to be warm and cozy, not out in the arctic with Fido in the middle of winter.

My Dad was a cat man and that was a good sign.  They are hard to find.

OK, all the forgoing was horribly sexist and totally off the cuff, but that's what I think.

Here is a fable I like a lot.  I'm not religious but I nonetheless find it has a true ring to it:

http://www.kittykondo.com/god%20created%20the%20cat.htm

Stefani July 9th, 2009 06:44:16 PM

Before you tar and feather Stephen O'Brien for his recent PNAS paper on cat domestication, you should know that he's been a major champion for cat genetics and large cat preservation. I highly recommend his book "Tears of the Cheetah"

Sarah July 9th, 2009 09:02:17 PM

"In Sex and War,..."

The decision to let women in the military was an economic one to save money on training.  Women can kill with a look.

Bob Jones July 9th, 2009 09:51:09 PM

I don't get this generalization at all, maybe because I know so many men that like cats & some that have them as sole pets.

And having Terriers doesn't fit the typical adoration generalization thought of dogs, either.

Barb A./NH July 9th, 2009 09:58:47 PM

What about females who prefer dogs?  I wouldn't say I hate cats, but I don't particularly care for them.  At all.  And I'm NOT talking about a woman who has little chihuahuas or terriers dressed up in rhinestone outfits either.  Some day, I'd love to have great danes or st. bernardes! For now my shepherd mix and lab will have to do! :)

Kara July 9th, 2009 10:06:23 PM

"Also, dogs can help you get chicks."

Try goats. Every woman we pass on the trail stops to talk and pet the goats. On a crowded trail it slows us down quite a bit.

Well, walking down the street with three goats and three ducks close behind stops traffic too. The ducks love to come, they just slow us down a bit.

The goats are Larry, Moe and Curly.  The ducks are Bill, Spot and Ferdinand.

One lone woman came from behind while we were on the trail and the boys were taking a short break. She paused saying she didn't want to spook them.  I told her they were only spooked these days by dogs on the trail. After she went by I told her she had passed the not-a-dog test since she didn't spook them. She expressed appreciation saying that sometimes it good to have reassurance.

So if any of you single guys want to rent some goats, drop me a note...

Bob Jones July 9th, 2009 10:23:52 PM

I think it's because cats are viewed as more "feminine", if that makes any sense.  That's my take on it, at least - and it jives with my experience that more of our clinic's cat owners are female or homosexual males than straight men, by a large margin.

anna July 9th, 2009 10:38:14 PM

I'm guessing geography might be a factor too.  My #1 criteria for an apartment was pet friendly... but my real #1 criteria was where would I not get bonked over the head and raped.  All the nice apartments in my price range and in my target area are very much no pets or cats only.  The nicest ones, by far, are no pets but I'm willing to forgo tasteful decor and a lovely layout for fuzzy companionship.  My hypothetical boy self would be happy to live in a slightly dodgier neighborhood because I'd be a little less worried about my personal safety.  I would get a dog in a heartbeat but my finances can't be massaged enough to make that happen.

Anne July 9th, 2009 11:28:45 PM

I agree with Stefani that it takes a confident guy to love a cat.  I have observed that men who appreciate smart, independent women also appreciate cats. 

Could be too, that lots of guys want to do stuff with their companion animals:  hunt, play ball, herd sheep, ride.  Maybe we should re-breed those ancient Egyptian hunting cats that you see on friezes.  At the risk of sounding New Age-y, cats are aligned with female energy (I guess you could say since the goddess Bastet, or at least since the first poor old woman was burned at the stake along with her kitty.) Strong female energy.

Guys are more likely to get a cat if they grew up in cat-loving families.  My husband didn't care much for cats (had a bad experience with a barn cat) and they never had cats while growing up.  But he saw how much his mother enjoyed a stray cat in the last years of her life, and reluctantly agreed to my wish to get a cat.  We got a friendly orange tabby, and Mr. Kitty and he are best buddies.  Ironically, I'm closer to the dog, probably because she touches my nurturing side. 

Tried to read the PNAS article, but could only get the first page.

lin July 10th, 2009 12:27:14 AM

Funny Bob Jones should mention goats.

In this household, we are about the same in appreciation of the dogs, cats, ducks and chickens.

The gender chasm is goats vs. turkeys.

Ken is totally smitten by the goats.

I am enamored of the turkeys.

There is no way in hell I would have predicted either state of affairs.

H. Houlahan July 10th, 2009 01:52:59 AM

Bob Jones, I haven't heard that one about training since I worked at Fr. Sill.  Sounds like you've met some of the civilian females at DOA Finance!

PJBoosinger July 10th, 2009 04:07:11 AM

I think most men dislike cats because cats are extremely independent and don't really give a darn.  Most men (please note I say "most", not "all") like things they can control.  Frankly, I belong to 3 cats and they do as they please.  The cats don't belong to me, I belong to the cats and I am okay with that.  Most men have a problem with this concept.  It's the whole territory thing, this is mine, that is mine, everything is mine! 

Maria July 10th, 2009 09:19:11 AM

Sarah: Thanks for the heads up. Actually, I didn't feel that I tarred and feathered him. I just found it amusing that an analysis that could easily play into the hands of the anti-cat male would be written by a man. Read the NYT piece that I referenced in defense of the cat. That was excellent. And very tongue in cheek.

Dr. Patty Khuly July 10th, 2009 09:30:02 AM

Anna, exactly my thoughts too:

"I think it's because cats are viewed as more "feminine", if that makes any sense." 

I think there are men who somehow feel cats are feminine and liking them means they aren't masculine. This also goes along with the other statements "I agree they tend to be confident males."

Jenny July 10th, 2009 10:27:34 AM

Steani, you may be right, my mother did not coddle or adore me, so maybe that is why I am a kitty guy. (I also have 3 dogs, what does that mean?)

Hobson July 10th, 2009 10:28:36 AM

I lean towards lin's point of view.

Men are practical. They like activities. A dog they can train, wrestle, play fetch with, and take jogging. They also aren't terribly bothered by things like drool or stinkyness. A parallel situation is they want the t.v. and video game systems (activities) to be in the middle of the living room, and don't care if they drool, er, I mean look good.

Women are more tuned toward comfort. They like cuddling, and are concerned with aesthetics. A soft, warm, self-cleaning cat sitting on your lap (or allowing you to pet it) is a good thing. Men only like cuddling if it leads to other activities.

puppynerd July 10th, 2009 10:47:35 AM

Being a woman I guess I don't really see the cuddling thing. That's something I think of when I see woman carrying small dogs with them wherever they are - so maybe a little.  But I prefer cats to dogs because they aren't as messy, smelly, and when they jump on me they don't slobber on me. I think some of it might go back to being a little afraid of some dogs as a child, and also the fact that I have severe allergies to them that developed in my 20's.

My husband likes to cuddle the cats - says that is one of the things he likes about winter as they aren't so busy looking out windows.  He also likes activities, and is concerned with aesthetics as much as I am.

Jenny July 10th, 2009 10:55:00 AM

se  thats theproblem  i have  kept( you dont own a cat )   cats allmy life  and they are addectionate and not aloof and bond as well as a dog does 

it takes time and patience with a cat   tuna doesnt hurt either

i like dogs   but cats are endlessley fascinating

jim hall July 10th, 2009 12:58:28 PM

Hobson, I didn't coddle or blow my son's ego up either.  He calls it neglect and abuse :)  And he's definitely not a kitty guy so the theory isn't perfect but then maybe that's because he's a tall, athletic, blond, hazel eyed Anglo so virtually the rest of the world did coddle him and blow smoke up his ego.

PJBoosinger July 10th, 2009 01:45:23 PM

LOL Hobson. 

Anyway, pretty much what I wrote is a stereotype.  I think there is some truth to it, but it doesn't stand up on close scrutiny, even in my own family.

For example:

Maternal Grandmother.  Despised cats.

Father.  Loved all animals, but cats were the favorite.

Mother.  Likes cats OK, but definitely more of a dog person.

Female Cousin.  Total dog person.  In fact, Dobermans and Pit Bulls.  More than one.  She's 5 feet tall and 90 pounds, so it looks interesting to see her walk them.

Me: I'm the only one running to stereotype.  Pretty much take after my dad.

So out of 5 family members with clear pet preferences, 4 are against stereotype.  There goes that theory!

Stefani July 10th, 2009 05:02:38 PM

Stefani - Its interesting that your make a point your female cousin is attracted to stereotypical tough guy dogs.  Because I would love a pit bull or dobie and I want one as an act of rebellion.  You know, society hates them (in Ontario, pitties are banned) and I want one to prove that they are awsome dogs.

Shannon July 10th, 2009 06:27:21 PM

Shannon,  I actually can't think of a dobie I've ever met who wasn't sweet.   My cousin named hers "she devil" and "tazmanian devil" but their personalities were not really devil like. (Hence totally baby-fied nicknames:  Mee-Moms and Tazay-bones.)   (I've also met some total lovebug pitties.  My friend Claire who runs "I Believe in Dog," has a fabulous silver pittie right now who needs a home.  Read about him here: http://www.ibelieveindog.com/adopt/ (shameless Buddy plug . . .  I met him and he is the biggest push over marshmellow ever.  oooo, another female dog lover in my circle . . . the stereotype continues to crumble. . .)

I think my cousin likes dobies and pits because she's teeny tiny, I'm sure it makes people less likely to bug her.  OTOH, my other cousin  is another female dog person, but she goes more for the little fancy dogs (maltese).  Come to think of it, I think I am the only female cat lover in my family!  (Actually the only cat lover period now that my dad is gone.) Whoah. 

Stefani July 10th, 2009 07:43:03 PM

My boyfirend is defenitly more a cat person than a dog person (although he gets along well with my dog). I'm both- although I do prefer big muscular dogs (Goodman is now 88lb...)

The men I know, tend to prefer cats.

Xslf July 12th, 2009 08:39:13 AM

I'm only a cat lady, because I don't have the space or budget to add dogs right now.  I love 'em both, and I'm a BIG DOG kind of woman.  I grew up with boxers (medium dogs, really,) but I like the big breeds a whole lot.  I was heartsick when I couldn't adopt an absolute goosh of a pittie (named Tacy, if I remember right) a few years back.

My current BF and my ex were both cat men.

...And I positively LOVE goats!

Jen M.

Jen M. August 4th, 2009 03:45:44 PM

I like cats, because they are quieter then most dogs and smaller too. I'm very small and I find large, loud dogs initimidating, and small yappy dogs grate on my nerves. I'd be willing to get a dog if was a reasonably small and QUIET breed (not a terrier).

Of course, as I currently live in a "no pets allowed" rental unit, the point is moot.

We had cats the whole time when I was growing up, we had a Rotwieler/German Shephard for a few months too but then my mom died and she was the only one that had had time to walk him (he was much to big for us kids to handle, especially me).

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